Should kids talk to teachers like this?

[ComUtoR]

'should' not 'must'. There is a difference.

That inflexibility has caused conflict in your class. You have a responsibility for that whether you like it or not.

not my problem.

This is a girl in your classroom, you are responsible and it is your problem. Treat children with respect and they will respect you back.

 

[najaB]

Sorry I don't understand what you mean?

If you can get someone to cover the class, then you can go. You have stated that you don't allow your students to go: 'there is no reason they cannot wait'.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I get Lauren's point about discipline, and not wishing to disrupt or be seen as a soft touch by letting the kids go to the loo whenever... but as others have said, the kids won't be concentrating on their work if they need the loo, so if the only reason to not allow the child to go is to let them know who is in charge, then it's a Phyrric victory really. In almost every other aspect of life if you need the loo you can either go straight away or at least are in control enough to take steps allowing you to go.

For most kids in your classroom you won't be the one they fear, it's the judgement of their peers that frightens them. Hence the fake bravado of saying "I'm on the rag" rather than a more delicate "but miss, it's the, ahem, time of the month".

 

[GB]

...has anyone mentioned the possibility of bullying during brakes in this thread? I remember both in primary and secondary school the toilets were the place the not so nice bigger kids hung out and wasn’t a very nice place to be in.

 

[radamfi]

...has anyone mentioned the possibility of bullying during brakes in this thread? I remember both in primary and secondary school the toilets were the place the not so nice bigger kids hung out and wasn’t a very nice place to be in.

Bullying will happen somewhere, even if it isn't in the toilet. We all remember what school was like. School isn't a nice place for either teachers or pupils.

 

[Bayum]

Yet, you are human. There will inevitably be the day when you just have to go, despite your best intentions. I hope your headmaster doesn't stand at the classroom door and tell you to hold it.

You'd be even more surprised...

 

[AlterEgo]

I can hardly recall anyone ever going to the toilet during lessons when I was at school. I don’t even think we’d have asked.

 

[najaB]

I can hardly recall anyone ever going to the toilet during lessons when I was at school. I don’t even think we’d have asked.

We would ask if we needed to go. But it wasn't the 'done thing' generally speaking.

 

[Pinza-C55]

I don't think non teachers realise how many children fail to go when they get the opputunity.

I remember last year before an afternoon long assembly I let all the children go before heading to the hall. 2 minutes later a girl asked to go claiming to be busting. I told her that was too bad and she should have gone and to wait until hometime. She managed to wait and didn't wet herself.

I'm not a teacher but I was a kid once a long time ago and I can remember roughly what it was like. I think standards of behaviour by kids have probably dropped since then and I wouldn't want to be a teacher. Maybe you are in the wrong job ?

 

[Antman]

Bullying will happen somewhere, even if it isn't in the toilet. We all remember what school was like. School isn't a nice place for either teachers or pupils.

There was very little bullying at my school although back then bullies were given a dose of their own medicine, six of the best from the headmaster.

 

[Miss lauren92]

What if they wet themselves ? Why not simply treat them like adults and let them go when they need to. Being 'disruptive' is only because the Teachers make such an issue of it.

Hand up, miss can I go to the loo please ?
Yes Peter

He gets up and goes to the loo. There is minimal disruption. Yes they should go during break but they are still human. What if they don't need to go during lunch ? I find myself needing a pee at the most inopportune moment and I'm ... Also, if you were sitting there and needed a pee it becomes a primary motivator. You will think of going to the loo at the exclusion of all else. That is not conducive to learning and potentially more disruptive.

School is not a prison.

Or what happens more often is

Hand up, miss can I go to the toilet.
Yes Peter

Hand up, miss can I go to the toilet.
Yes Nichola, and so on....

Easier just to refuse as I said they can hold it.

Did you read post 93 that is proof they can wait.

If you can get someone to cover the class, then you can go. You have stated that you don't allow your students to go: 'there is no reason they cannot wait'.

What is the difference between me not being able to go because there is no supervision for the children or telling a child to wait until breaktime? same outcome

 

[DarloRich]

This is a very odd thread.

Did you read post 93 that is proof they can wait.

That is hardly scientific proof. I assume you This whole stance is a short cut to terrible pr and headlines in the local press. However, we have ruled out that the OP is not an English teacher or a science teacher.

What if they wet themselves ? Why not simply treat them like adults and let them go when they need to. Being 'disruptive' is only because the Teachers make such an issue of it.

Hand up, miss can I go to the loo please ?
Yes Peter

He gets up and goes to the loo. There is minimal disruption. Yes they should go during break but they are still human. What if they don't need to go during lunch ? I find myself needing a pee at the most inopportune moment and I'm ... Also, if you were sitting there and needed a pee it becomes a primary motivator. You will think of going to the loo at the exclusion of all else. That is not conducive to learning and potentially more disruptive.

School is not a prison.

Is, of course, the right answer.

That said I am sure we all used any excuse ( including going to the toilet and trying to spend all period there) to try and duck out of lessons we didn't like or to get away from boring or dull teachers. I know I did. I am sure that this must have a vast negative impact on your educational performance and I was just lucky that I left school with 11 gsce's, 4 A levels, an A/S level and went on to get a degree and professional qualification. Just plain luck.

 

[Antman]

Or what happens more often is

Hand up, miss can I go to the toilet.
Yes Peter

Hand up, miss can I go to the toilet.
Yes Nichola, and so on....

Easier just to refuse as I said they can hold it.

Did you read post 93 that is proof they can wait.

Exactly, let one go and suddenly they all want to go probably just to have a mess about and the lesson is seriously disrupted.

 

[Antman]

This is a very odd thread.


That is hardly scientific proof. I assume you This whole stance is a short cut to terrible pr and headlines in the local press. However, we have ruled out that the OP is not an English teacher or a science teacher.


Is, of course, the right answer.

That said I am sure we all used any excuse ( including going to the toilet and trying to spend all period there) to try and duck out of lessons we didn't like or to get away from boring or dull teachers. I know I did. I am sure that this must have a vast negative impact on your educational performance and I was just lucky that I left school with 11 gsce's, 4 A levels, an A/S level and went on to get a degree and professional qualification. Just plain luck.

No it is of course the wrong answer and you've explained yourself why.

 

[najaB]

Did you read post 93 that is proof they can wait.

I *really* hope you don't teach science if that is what passes as proof to you.

 

[DarloRich]

No it is of course the wrong answer and you've explained yourself why.

I would rather that than front page news in the Crapsville echo about "evil teacher forced my 9 year old daughter to wet herself" coupled with a social media storm. That isnt going to play well or look good on your record and the head wont back you when the reputation of the school is being destroyed.

Discipline is very important, obviously, but that doesn't stem from pettiness but from respect.

Thinking of our "hardest" teachers the worst of the lot would let you go to the toilet whenever but woe betide anyone caught messing about or swinging the lead. Respect for him came not because he didn't let people go to the toilet but because he knew all the tricks and could & would make life very difficult for you. The younger teachers thought that they were being "hard" because they stopped you going to the toilet and were following the discipline manual closely. They missed that such a view lost them respect and made their lives more difficult.

 

[Antman]

I would rather that than front page news in the Crapsville echo about "evil teacher forced my 9 year old daughter to wet herself" coupled with a social media storm. That isnt going to play well or look good on your record and the head wont back you when the reputation of the school is being destroyed.

Discipline is very important, obviously, but that doesn't stem from pettiness but from respect.

Thinking of our "hardest" teachers the worst of the lot would let you go to the toilet whenever but woe betide anyone caught messing about or swinging the lead. Respect for him came not because he didn't let people go to the toilet but because he knew all the tricks and could & would make life very difficult for you. The younger teachers thought that they were being "hard" because they stopped you going to the toilet and were following the discipline manual closely. They missed that such a view lost them respect and made their lives more difficult.

Maybe 9 is a bit young but certainly when I started secondary school it was made clear that break times were for visiting the toilet and we wouldn't be able to go during lessons although I'm sure an exception would have been made in an emergency but I don't recall there ever being a problem.

 

[Miss lauren92]

I *really* hope you don't teach science if that is what passes as proof to you.

The girl I mentioned in post 93 did wait all afternoon though despite pleading she was bursting. A child who is bursting cannot wait 2 hours, she did. Too be honest I'm not bothered if she hadn't had been able to wait she had been given ample time.

Exactly, let one go and suddenly they all want to go probably just to have a mess about and the lesson is seriously disrupted.

Precisely it always amazes me how many children claim to be desperate during lessons but I never get any ask during golden time or P.E.

I would rather that than front page news in the Crapsville echo about "evil teacher forced my 9 year old daughter to wet herself" coupled with a social media storm. That isnt going to play well or look good on your record and the head wont back you when the reputation of the school is being destroyed.

Discipline is very important, obviously, but that doesn't stem from pettiness but from respect.

Thinking of our "hardest" teachers the worst of the lot would let you go to the toilet whenever but woe betide anyone caught messing about or swinging the lead. Respect for him came not because he didn't let people go to the toilet but because he knew all the tricks and could & would make life very difficult for you. The younger teachers thought that they were being "hard" because they stopped you going to the toilet and were following the discipline manual closely. They missed that such a view lost them respect and made their lives more difficult.

Who said anything about 9 year olds?

 

[DarloRich]

Who said anything about 9 year olds?

age used as an example.

 

[Miss lauren92]

age used as an example.

Ok, I don't see why a 9 year old wouldn't be able to wait either. I would have the same rules no matter what year I taught except year 1. Once they get to year 2 or above they should be capable of holding their wee.

How many people have told their child to wait on a car journey? What is the difference between that and what I do?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

...has anyone mentioned the possibility of bullying during brakes in this thread? I remember both in primary and secondary school the toilets were the place the not so nice bigger kids hung out and wasn’t a very nice place to be in.

Quite. Now there's no way for us to know whether the pupil in question is a bully, or one who is bullied, or one of the lucky ones who is oblivious to whether bullying exists. But when I was at school teachers seemed wilfully ignorant to how cruel kids can be, even at age 9/10/11.

There was very little bullying at my school although back then bullies were given a dose of their own medicine, six of the best from the headmaster.

I find that extremely hard to believe. If you didn't experience it or even see it, then lucky you!

Exactly, let one go and suddenly they all want to go probably just to have a mess about and the lesson is seriously disrupted.

The obvious solution to that is for each teacher to have a token which is handed to a pupil to take with them to a toilet, and only one pupil from each class is permitted to go at any one time. Not foolproof but it's something that my school used to prevent large groups bunking out of lessons.

 

[najaB]

Too be honest I'm not bothered if she hadn't had been able to wait...

And with that, I'm out.

 

[Miss lauren92]

And with that, I'm out.

Just to point out the girl had been in the toilet 2 mins prior so chances are she didn't even need a wee or why would she have not gone?

When in a lesson I as the teacher have more important things to worry about than whether a child is desperate for a wee.

One other thing is I can face a backlash from slt for letting the kids go to to the toilet.

 

[Antman]

Quite. Now there's no way for us to know whether the pupil in question is a bully, or one who is bullied, or one of the lucky ones who is oblivious to whether bullying exists. But when I was at school teachers seemed wilfully ignorant to how cruel kids can be, even at age 9/10/11.


I find that extremely hard to believe. If you didn't experience it or even see it, then lucky you!


The obvious solution to that is for each teacher to have a token which is handed to a pupil to take with them to a toilet, and only one pupil from each class is permitted to go at any one time. Not foolproof but it's something that my school used to prevent large groups bunking out of lessons.

I don't why you find it hard to believe, the punishment for bullying was made very clear.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I don't why you find it hard to believe.

Probably because "bullying doesn't happen at this school" is a line said by teachers and headteachers time and time again to the victims of bullying at that same school. The exact phrase is usually used as a cop out to avoid dealing with the issues. So when someone else uses the same phrase, those of us who were victims of bullying find it very hard to believe.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I don't why you find it hard to believe, the punishment for bullying was made very clear.

As it was for me, for all the good it did!

But like the Murphys, I'm not bitter...

 

[DarloRich]

Too be honest I'm not bothered if she hadn't had been able to wait she had been given ample time.

hmmmm. I am out.

 

[Monty]

Probably the most bizarre thread I've ever seen on this forum and that's saying something. My personal experiences at school were that if you needed to go all you had to do was put your hand up and ask. Towards the end of secondary school some of the teachers treated you like adults saying if you needed to go just leave the room quietly and there was no need to ask.

But since this is a railway forum I will pose this question to you all, if teachers are of the opinion it's acceptable to force young children to wait to use the toilets maybe it's time to remove toilets from most trains since as adults we should also be expected to wait?

 

[Antman]

Probably the most bizarre thread I've ever seen on this forum and that's saying something. My personal experiences at school were that if you needed to go all you had to do was put your hand up and ask. Towards the end of secondary school some of the teachers treated you like adults saying if you needed to go just leave the room quietly and there was no need to ask.

But since this is a railway forum I will pose this question to you all, if teachers are of the opinion it's acceptable to force young children to wait to use the toilets maybe it's time to remove toilets from most trains since as adults we should also be expected to wait?

Most people can go at least an hour or two without needing the loo unless they have a medical condition.

 

[Antman]

Probably because "bullying doesn't happen at this school" is a line said by teachers and headteachers time and time again to the victims of bullying at that same school. The exact phrase is usually used as a cop out to avoid dealing with the issues. So when someone else uses the same phrase, those of us who were victims of bullying find it very hard to believe.

These weren't claims made by the school it's my experience and my former classmates, many of whom I'm in touch with through social media, agree.

I'm not saying there was no bullying at all but when it was bought to the headmasters attention it was swiftly dealt with and the bully found out that they weren't quite as tough as they thought.