Should Covent Garden underground station be closed?

[sprunt]

A comment in the maps thread about the placement of Covent Garden on the tube map (essentially saying it was being misrepresented as further than it is from Leicester Square) got me wondering how essential it is. To be clear, I'm not actually advocating for it, I was more wondering how bad the downside would be if TfL wanted to save a bit of money on it.

It's a horrible station to use, nearly always crowded with a significant wait for the lifts. When I worked in an office in Covent Garden nobody used the station, everyone would use Leicester Square or Holborn in preference. The stations either side of it are close enough that nobody's journey time is going to be significantly increased without it. I did consider that it might affect the journey times of people with mobility issues, but it also strikes me that Covent Garden would be a bad station to use for people with mobility issues, lots of stairs and standing around waiting for the lift.

The main downside I can see is that closing it would put extra burden of entrances/exits onto Holborn and Leicester Square. I don't know if this would be an unbearable strain, please tell me if so. Or tell me what else I've missed!

(I appreciate that there might be an impact on the people who work in the station, but I'm coming to this more from a hard-nosed business perspective.)

 

[jupiter]

In any normal walk of life if something is very busy you put a second one in, don’t you? Seems slightly perverse but very railway to close it because it’s busy.

 

[bramling]

A comment in the maps thread about the placement of Covent Garden on the tube map (essentially saying it was being misrepresented as further than it is from Leicester Square) got me wondering how essential it is. To be clear, I'm not actually advocating for it, I was more wondering how bad the downside would be if TfL wanted to save a bit of money on it.

It's a horrible station to use, nearly always crowded with a significant wait for the lifts. When I worked in an office in Covent Garden nobody used the station, everyone would use Leicester Square or Holborn in preference. The stations either side of it are close enough that nobody's journey time is going to be significantly increased without it. I did consider that it might affect the journey times of people with mobility issues, but it also strikes me that Covent Garden would be a bad station to use for people with mobility issues, lots of stairs and standing around waiting for the lift.

The main downside I can see is that closing it would put extra burden of entrances/exits onto Holborn and Leicester Square. I don't know if this would be an unbearable strain, please tell me if so. Or tell me what else I've missed!

(I appreciate that there might be an impact on the people who work in the station, but I'm coming to this more from a hard-nosed business perspective.)

Holborn is congested as well, and likely couldn’t cope in its current form with Covent Garden closed. I guess if a western ticket hall could be provided at Holborn then this might be less of an issue.

 

[35B]

Holborn is congested as well, and likely couldn’t cope in its current form with Covent Garden closed. I guess if a western ticket hall could be provided at Holborn then this might be less of an issue.

As important, the local streets are also seriously crowded. Pushing those extra crowds onto Holborn and Leicester Square stations will put passengers at significantly increased risk of injury on the foot crossings they'd have to cross to get to the stations.

It's already subject to restrictions at times because it's too busy - what would happen to those crowds if it weren't there is a serious question

 

[greyman42]

It's a horrible station to use, nearly always crowded with a significant wait for the lifts.

I use Covent Garden and don't find that i have to wait any significant time for the lifts, i actually find them efficient.

 

[The Pelican]

Is there any precedent for a station being closed for being too busy? Most of the other central london picadilly line closures were for being too empty. I think it just needs to wait for the next major building project in the area to bung some cash towards some escalators, just as the Elephant and Castle project has fundwd all the works there. The area above the station has improved enormously in the last year with the silencing of the pedicabs!

 

[321362]

Is there any precedent for a station being closed for being too busy? Most of the other central london picadilly line closures were for being too empty. I think it just needs to wait for the next major building project in the area to bung some cash towards some escalators, just as the Elephant and Castle project has fundwd all the works there. The area above the station has improved enormously in the last year with the silencing of the pedicabs!

If you built escalators that went parallel to the tracks, the top of them would be closer to either Leicester Square or Holborn. If they were perpendicular to the tracks, the entrance would end up at either Seven Dials or somewhere near the Transport Museum, neither of which is particularly helpful for the actual passenger flows that Covent Garden is good for, which is a mix of traffic from places in all directions from the current sight and it's good because it's near-ish to a lot of things.

This leaves the option of two escalators going in directly opposite directions, which would keep the entrance near where it currently is, but would be a lot more expensive and harder to build. The current entrance is also a bit penned in and would be hard to upgrade in any meaningful way.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I agree with others that accessing either Leicester Square or Holborn to/from 'Covent Garden' as an actual well-known tourist hotspot is rather awkward in terms of crossing busy roads, getting lost at somewhere like Seven Dials and negotiating crowded pavements. Having used it many times, especially on weekdays, I also usually find the wait for lifts perfectly acceptable.

Holborn in particular isn't nearly as well known by tourists and other visitors and also suffers because the road called Holborn/High Holborn is quite long. It also get congested, despite having four escalators, and there is already a much-deferred upgrade scheme in waiting.

 

[Harpo]

In my experience, getting in and out of Covent Garden station is way faster than getting in or out of that underground shothole, New Street. If this is a new criteria for closure or improvement, crack on.

 

[bramling]

In my experience, getting in and out of Covent Garden station is way faster than getting in or out of that underground shothole, New Street. If this is a new criteria for closure or improvement, crack on.

It can take a long time at weekends, the rest of the time it’s not really an issue.

What would probably make life easier is if they made access to the stairs a bit harder - not making them out of bounds, but putting doors at the top and bottom to act as a psychological barrier (in the same way as is done at James Street and Hamilton Square). That way only decently able-bodied people would use them, rather than them being cluttered up by people who get a quarter of the way up and then expire, blocking the stairs for those who *can* use them.

 

[The Pelican]

If you built escalators that went parallel to the tracks, the top of them would be closer to either Leicester Square or Holborn. If they were perpendicular to the tracks, the entrance would end up at either Seven Dials or somewhere near the Transport Museum, neither of which is particularly helpful for the actual passenger flows that Covent Garden is good for, which is a mix of traffic from places in all directions from the current sight and it's good because it's near-ish to a lot of things.

This leaves the option of two escalators going in directly opposite directions, which would keep the entrance near where it currently is, but would be a lot more expensive and harder to build. The current entrance is also a bit penned in and would be hard to upgrade in any meaningful way.

I think something like the one of the two 2010s Bank entrances could be dug next time a large building is rebuilt. By adding an intermediate landing on the escalators, the bottom could be on today's platforms and the top near today's entrance.

 

[Crithylum]

It makes almost no sense to have multiple stations this close together. I suspect the only reason it hasn’t closed is that Leicester Square and Holborn don’t have capacity. If I were adding escalators, it would be to an adjacent station, and then I would close Covent Garden to speed up journeys.

 

[davews]

Having been caught out once when I found Covent Garden closed (congestion?) I found the route to Leicester Square quite awkward with lots of road crossings, confused also by not actually knowing the way which is unsignposted.

 

[edwin_m]

It makes almost no sense to have multiple stations this close together. I suspect the only reason it hasn’t closed is that Leicester Square and Holborn don’t have capacity. If I were adding escalators, it would be to an adjacent station, and then I would close Covent Garden to speed up journeys.

For some reason what became the Piccadilly Line was built with closer stop spacing in the centre than other Underground lines. Down Street and Brompton Road were closed before WW2 (plus York Road but that wasn't really central). It's a bit surprising Covent Garden didn't go at the same time, considering it just served a market area that didn't then generate much patronage. The Victoria provides a quicker alternative for some Piccadilly journeys.

 

[The exile]

For some reason what became the Piccadilly Line was built with closer stop spacing in the centre than other Underground lines. Down Street and Brompton Road were closed before WW2 (plus York Road but that wasn't really central). It's a bit surprising Covent Garden didn't go at the same time, considering it just served a market area that didn't then generate much patronage. The Victoria provides a quicker alternative for some Piccadilly journeys.

Presumably the fact that it wasn’t closed suggests patronage wasn’t as low as all that.

 

[35B]

Presumably the fact that it wasn’t closed suggests patronage wasn’t as low as all that.

It was pretty marginal; as a kid, I well remember Covent Garden having even worse opening times than West Brompton.

If it closed, one of the issues would be that the gap between stations would become one of the longest in the central section. When that’s for three of the busiest tourist stations, that would be a problem.

 

[321362]

Covent Garden is only the most useful option for that area if you're travelling to somewhere right by the station and coming from a Piccadilly Line station. If I was coming on the Central Line I would never even think about changing at Holborn, I'd just exit there and walk 2 minutes to my destination. Likewise with the Northern Line: Tottenham Court Road, Leicester Square and Charing Cross are very close to a large proportion of the area which Covent Garden serves, as are Temple and Embankment for Circle Line passengers.

 

[Howardh]

Not sure that the suggestion I'm making is all that serious - but you never know! If due to overcrowding Covent Garden became St Martin's East, and Leicester Sq became St Martin's West, the former exit only, and the latter entrance only (thus a kind of one-way system?) with a clear pedestrian pathway between? Of course that would mean walking further if your destination is Soho but as they are so close together does it matter?

That aside, close them both and open a bigger new station between them where St Martin's Rd meets Long Acre?

 

[The exile]

Covent Garden is only the most useful option for that area if you're travelling to somewhere right by the station and coming from a Piccadilly Line station. If I was coming on the Central Line I would never even think about changing at Holborn, I'd just exit there and walk 2 minutes to my destination. Likewise with the Northern Line: Tottenham Court Road, Leicester Square and Charing Cross are very close to a large proportion of the area which Covent Garden serves, as are Temple and Embankment for Circle Line passengers.

That’s true - but a very large number of those using Covent Garden will have no idea of how the tube map relates to the world above (the sort of people who in the past would go from Temple to Aldwych by tube!)

 

[35B]

That’s true - but a very large number of those using Covent Garden will have no idea of how the tube map relates to the world above (the sort of people who in the past would go from Temple to Aldwych by tube!)

Precisely. I grew up in London, and regularly visited Covent Garden through school and student days, but never realised how it fitted into central London geography as I went in and out. Only when I got a job near Oxford Circus and realised how easy it was to walk across Soho did I realise the Tube was a bad guide.

 

[Pegpilot]

Spent 5 years in the noughties regularly using CG on my way to and from our offices on Strand. Generally OK to use except when one or more lifts were U/S when it could be really difficult as the circulating areas upstairs and downstairs got packed. I seem to remember counting 211 steps up the spiral staircase if you fancied arriving in the office drenched in sweat to avoid the long wait . And I also seem to remember from my Picc train performance modelling when I was at Tube Lines (remember them ?) that the inter-station distance to Leicester Square was a paltry 260 metres.

 

[Harpo]

Only when I got a job near Oxford Circus and realised how easy it was to walk across Soho did I realise the Tube was a bad guide.

Very much so! Central London is very compact. Waterloo to Euston is only 2 miles and made a nice lunchtime stroll. Liverpool St to Paddington is about 4 miles and a 1 hour walk (for me) that I did during tube strikes. Lots to explore.

 

[Backroom_boy]

Best solution perhaps is to rename Leicester Square to Leicester Square (for covent garden) and then put some wayfaring markers in above ground.

 

[35B]

Best solution perhaps is to rename Leicester Square to Leicester Square (for covent garden) and then put some wayfaring markers in above ground.

No, the best solution is to leave the current station open and accept the constraint that it represents.

 

[edwin_m]

Not sure that the suggestion I'm making is all that serious - but you never know! If due to overcrowding Covent Garden became St Martin's East, and Leicester Sq became St Martin's West, the former exit only, and the latter entrance only (thus a kind of one-way system?) with a clear pedestrian pathway between? Of course that would mean walking further if your destination is Soho but as they are so close together does it matter?

That aside, close them both and open a bigger new station between them where St Martin's Rd meets Long Acre?

How would either of these work for the Northern Line at Leicester Square?

 

[Backroom_boy]

No, the best solution is to leave the current station open and accept the constraint that it represents.

Oh yeah I was meaning keep it open as well.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Is there any precedent for a station being closed for being too busy? Most of the other central london picadilly line closures were for being too empty. I think it just needs to wait for the next major building project in the area to bung some cash towards some escalators, just as the Elephant and Castle project has fundwd all the works there. The area above the station has improved enormously in the last year with the silencing of the pedicabs!

Doesn't the Ricoh Stadium station in Coventry get closed on matchdays because they're worried about supporters overwhelming the two-coach units they use on that line?

 

[HSTEd]

Not sure that the suggestion I'm making is all that serious - but you never know! If due to overcrowding Covent Garden became St Martin's East, and Leicester Sq became St Martin's West, the former exit only, and the latter entrance only (thus a kind of one-way system?) with a clear pedestrian pathway between? Of course that would mean walking further if your destination is Soho but as they are so close together does it matter?

That aside, close them both and open a bigger new station between them where St Martin's Rd meets Long Acre?

Wouldn't you want Covent Garden to be entrance only, because then the staircase would actually be useful to significant numbers of people?

Otherwise you still ram vast numbers of people into the lifts at Covent Garden, whilst also ensuring the lifts spend half the time (the down leg) empty.

 

[YorksLad12]

The best solution (for me) is probably to do what happens now at busy times; make Covent Garden exit-only, say between 10am and 6pm. People will tend to arrive at similar times, such as for lunch; but they will disperse at different rates and times, and should be able to make the under 400m walk to Leicester Square (pedestrianising Long Acre between the two stations would help - it's already one-way with wide pavements and crossing points).

Exit-only means the lifts will run a bit more quickly as well, as they won't need to wait at the top to fill up.

 

[The Pelican]

Before the post-2016 funding issues, TfL’s next planned station rebuild, after the Victoria and then Bank additions, was at Holborn. London Reconnections still has some files up from 2017 showing the rebuild, although you can’t open them. It was felt that this was required to enable maximum frequencies on the Piccadilly line after the new trains were introduced- notably, the Piccadilly line lacked interchanges with either Crossrail or, from the south west, Crossrail 2, so it‘s clear that interchange between the Piccadilly and Central lines is very important. Nevertheless, a Covent Garden station improvement after this might have been a good idea. It seems to me that Temple and Covent Garden tube station being in the same place, perhaps outside the southern edge of Covent garden market, near the jubilee market and snow and rock, might have allowed quite a few useful connections- one for a long platform level tunnel, perhaps?