I think it has gone independent politically.
Pity SLAB (Scottish Labour) never got the memo.
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Should Corbyn join RailUKforums?
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Pity SLAB (Scottish Labour) never got the memo.
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Is that the same "SLAB" that all their aspirational hopes prior to the last General Election were laid out upon in their final resting place after that election?
The slab your thinking of was the day i knew the Tories could only lose the 2015 election.
In Scotland Labour were 3 times as popular as the lib dems, yet got the same number of MPs.
SNP were twice as popular as Labour and had 50 times as many MPs
Yeay democracy!
backontrack
Established Member
I was actually referring to a grammatical error that you made:
(emphasis mine)St Rollox said:
And I actually think that Corbyn may be able to win back some urban seats in Scotland.
Then i suggest you place a very large bet on it.
The odds on Labour gaining anything on the first vote in the Scottish General Election must return lottery winning prize money.
Take Paul Martin (Glasgow Provan) and Johann Lamont (Glasgow Provan) as your bankers then add anything of your choice from any Scottish urban area.
There's a number of political betting websites so you can see the odds.
If you think Labour will do well in Scotland ie that would mean a gain of one at the present time, then double up with Ukip in Wales.
I always find it funny that this exact issue has been a problem with FPTP voting for centuries, yet people seem to like it. In fact, a majority of voters supported FPTP at the 2011 referendum.
Labour and the Tories have benefited from this system for decades. Electoral reform was not a significant issue for most people at that time. Yet when the tables turn and the SNP benefit, suddenly it becomes a big democratic issue...
I'm not aware of Labour or Tory complaints about FPTP in Scotland, the people complaining are the ones who have always complained.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
If that is the case, it shows you how very deeply unpopular the Lib Dems must have been in Scotland at the time of the last General Election...:roll:
I can't speak for the Scottish Tories but there was a section in the Scottish Labour (SLAB) who supported a change in the voting system.
I know i was once a member of SLAB.
And there has been three changes or two changes and one new set up since the start of Scottish devolution all be it SLAB was forced into it by outsiders.
They were deeply unpopular everywhere, but slightly more unpopular in Scotland than the uk as a whole.
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
I'm not sure that's entirely fair. I haven't noticed that calls for PR have particularly grown since last year's election. There's been minority support for PR within the Labour Party for a long time, but it's always been a minority pushing for it, and never made it as far as the leadership (apart from when the newly elected Blair Government set up a commission on it in 1997 but then only acted on it for some elections, and not including UK General Elections
). That situation appears to remain today - a minority within Labour are calling for Labour to support PR, but it doesn't seem to have spiked the leadership's interest.Having said that, I'm sure it's not a coincidence that support for PR is weakest amongst those parties that gain the most from the current unfair system (almost no support as far as I can see within the Conservatives) and strongest amongst those parties that lose the most from the current system.
Just to be clear, the referendum asked if people wanted to switch to AV. It did not ask if people wanted to stick with FPTP. The two questions are not the same. A majority of voters rejected AV. Support for FPTP was not measured. And for the avoidance of further doubt, both AV and FPTP are majoritarian electoral systems. AV certainly is not a form of a proportional representation system, so we cannot infer support (or lack of) for PR based on a referendum where it was never presented as an option.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Of course it isn't, especially more so given those who benefit from the type of electoral system happen to be those who legislate on its use.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Agreed. I voted against AV because I believe it is a confusing system with few benefits. I would have voted in favour of a system with true proportional representation.
And your vote was used as an example of how people thought FPTP is the best system, congratulations.
But that's not what's used by FPTP propoenents. They claim " In fact, a majority of voters supported FPTP at the 2011 referendum. "
Propaganda is rarely truthful, doesn't mean that it's right, but it does mean it's powerful. There is a view in this country that the vast majority of people want FPTP, and the majority votes for FPTP in 2011.
It was clear at the time anyone voting "no" to AV would be implicitly supporting FPTP, as the yes campaign said at the time
"This is the first time we have been given a say on changing the way we do politics in this country. We may not get asked again. On Thursday the choice is simple: if you're happy with business as usual at Westminster, vote No. If you want to change politics for the better, vote Yes."
And the victors were quite clear on what it meant.
"But David Cameron, whose Conservative Party campaigned to keep first-past-the-post, said the referendum had delivered a "resounding answer that settles the question" over electoral change and people now wanted the government to get on with governing in the national interest."
The director of the No campaign, Matthew Elliott, said he had been "astonished" at the scale of the No victory: "I personally believe that this result will settle the debate over changing our electoral system for the next generation."
I suspect that many voting "No to AV" are the same people that "punished the libdems" (for managing to get a lot of their policies into government) by voting for the conservatives. The British people have an electoral system we deserve.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
The Lib Dems wanted PR not AV but Cameron wouldn't allow a referendum on PR so they compromised on AV. However, members of the public who wanted PR were less willing to compromise.
What it asked was:
Which sounds to me like do you want to switch to AV or stick with FPTP?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That does not mean that a vote for FPTP in that context implies a vote for FPTP in a context where say STV was available.
Read the question carefully. It only asks if you want to switch to AV.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
It is at times like this, when reading through past thread postings, that those immortal words of Michelle in 'Allo 'Allo come readily to mind...
"Listen, I shall say this only once"....:roll:
ExRes
Established Member
I wouldn't think that any type of public opinion will count for much if Corbyn ever comes to power in this country
As has been widely covered in the press, not on this forum though, he wants a 'power sharing' deal with Argentina on the Falklands even though the Falklanders voted overwhelmingly in favour of remaining a British territory, 99.8% of a 91.94% turnout
As has been widely covered in the press, not on this forum though, he wants a 'power sharing' deal with Argentina on the Falklands even though the Falklanders voted overwhelmingly in favour of remaining a British territory, 99.8% of a 91.94% turnout
Johnuk123
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Corbyn's priorities are trades unions, public sector employees, immigrants already here, and any foreigners who have an axe to grind against this country.
Cameron for once got it spot on yesterday when he said Corbyn didn't care about the British, I imagine a lot of labour supporters would thoroughly agree with that.
Corbyn is the ultimate pot-stirrer, as when he was poncing around Calais invited by the anti-UK anarchist no-borders group, he goes there and the migrants think he can get them in Britain, they don't know he has as much chance of being pm as me.
You know things are bad when even Kinnock thinks you're useless.
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Arglwydd Golau
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You can also add to that the low paid, the homeless, people struggling to buy a house, people with Mental Health issues, the NHS, multi-national corporations that do not pay their fair share of tax etc etc but of course that wouldn't be of any interest, would it?
backontrack
Established Member
Sounds like the pot-stirrer calling the kettle black...
Gutfright
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No Borders are not an anarchist group per se, they seem perfectly happy to keep capitalism and the state as long as they keep an open door immigration policy.
And of course open door immigration is a purely capitalist notion -international capital, economic potential and human resources should not be bound by national borders. Heaven forbid we should implement some sort of leftist / socialist protectionist policy which prevents the free movement of cheap labour!
Johnuk123
Established Member
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...remy-Corbyn-leads-party-27-point-deficit.html
I am amazed that only 16% see labour as having the best political team to solve all the worlds problems. I would have thought a team including terrorist sympathisers like McDonnell and racists like Thornberry and Abbott would be miles in front at this stage.
I keep hearing how popular Corbyn is with labour members unfortunately for them that is totally irrelevant when it comes to winning elections.You would think a party that had just lost an election would try and make amends by making themselves electable for the next one. But no, idiotic labour members elect an obscure disloyal back-bencher just because his pet product is class warfare which they love but will never get them elected.
Assuming Corbyn doesn't get ditched which is a big assumption labour party members have ensured the Conservatives will win the next 2 elections.
I am amazed that only 16% see labour as having the best political team to solve all the worlds problems. I would have thought a team including terrorist sympathisers like McDonnell and racists like Thornberry and Abbott would be miles in front at this stage.
I keep hearing how popular Corbyn is with labour members unfortunately for them that is totally irrelevant when it comes to winning elections.You would think a party that had just lost an election would try and make amends by making themselves electable for the next one. But no, idiotic labour members elect an obscure disloyal back-bencher just because his pet product is class warfare which they love but will never get them elected.
Assuming Corbyn doesn't get ditched which is a big assumption labour party members have ensured the Conservatives will win the next 2 elections.
I can see this being something of an unfortunate truth, certainly in 2020. Who knows, perhaps after 3 General Elections of running leaders who haven't found favour with the masses, they'll get the message. I hope they do, if not for themselves, for the political landscape.
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