Should Blackpool lose TPex...

[Philip]

May 2007 timetable you had:
* 2 hourly Piccadilly to Scotland (non-stop Bolton-Preston)
* Hourly Buxton to Blackpool (all stops Bolton-Preston)
* Hourly Manchester Airport to Blackpool (selected stops Bolton-Preston)
* Hourly Manchester Airport to Cumbria (selected stops Bolton-Preston)

Now you have:
* Hourly Airport to Scotland (express but via Wigan)
* Hourly Manchester Victoria to Blackpool (all stops Bolton-Preston)
* Hourly Manchester Airport to Blackpool (selected stops Bolton-Preston)
* Hourly Hazel Grove to Preston (selected stops Bolton-Preston)

So there's more trains between Manchester and Preston then there were and also more fast trains between the two cities. The differences are:
* Bolton has one less train every 2 hours but Wigan has an additional hourly service.
* The service that forms the all-stops between Bolton and Preston originates from Victoria instead of Piccadilly.

Bolton should have its second fast train to Preston reinstated and whilst sending Scotland trains that way again may not be a solution, the 185s released off Blackpool services should be used for this second fast service not for yet more TPE North services, with Barrow being the obvious destination.

 

[northwichcat]

Fairly sure I read it on the North Wales Coast Railway website which tends to be very accurate. In fact initially FNW 158s replaced Sprinters on Barrow and Windermere services because of the faster top speed 90 over 75, but this only lasted a year or so before 175s were required to work the services because of 100mph running. When unreliability caused 175 shortages they prioritised the North West routes over the North Wales routes for 175 traction, because of the required DMU speed for that stretch of the mainline.

100mph units being used on a line where the linespeed exceeds 100mph is certainly an advantage, even if the services are timed for 90mph then the 100mph unit is able to make up time if it's running late.

I'm not convinced that the reason for prioritising 175 usage on North West services would have been solely down to the speed of the units. There's also the fact that Chester crews signed 158s while Piccadilly crews did not as well as the fact that the 175s were maintained at Chester so if a faulty 175 could later return to service it would have been easier to get it on a North Wales diagram than a Cumbria diagram.
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the 185s released off Blackpool services should be used for this second fast service not for yet more TPE North services, with Barrow being the obvious destination.

Key difference is Bolton will have wires when those 185s are released so an additional hourly Lancaster-Bolton service could be provided without needing the 185s. With North TPE the 185s will be the only solution for 2 years after Bolton is wired.

 

[Philip]

100mph units being used on a line where the linespeed exceeds 100mph is certainly an advantage, even if the services are timed for 90mph then the 100mph unit is able to make up time if it's running late.

I'm not convinced that the reason for prioritising 175 usage on North West services would have been solely down to the speed of the units. There's also the fact that Chester crews signed 158s while Piccadilly crews did not as well as the fact that the 175s were maintained at Chester so if a faulty 175 could later return to service it would have been easier to get it on a North Wales diagram than a Cumbria diagram.
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Key difference is Bolton will have wires when those 185s are released so an additional hourly Lancaster-Bolton service could be provided without needing the 185s. With North TPE the 185s will be the only solution for 2 years after Bolton is wired.

TPE will probably have 185 and 158 DMUs fairly soon so like I said earlier for the extra Hull and Selby service a 158 would be better because it can make use of the sprinter speeds on the line to Hull. Wasn't the option of a diesel service between Manchester and Barrow mentioned in the consultation? If this happens then a 185 would be the obvious solution as it can run at top speed along the mainline.

 

[northwichcat]

Wasn't the option of a diesel service between Manchester and Barrow mentioned in the consultation? If this happens then a 185 would be the obvious solution as it can run at top speed along the mainline.

Just checked and it doesn't specifically mention direct Manchester services other than under the current service provision. The consultation asks how many Barrow services should be a shuttle service and how many through services should operate. However, it goes on to ask what destination through services should operate to, which suggests Newcastle or Leeds (via Accrington) could be considered as destinations for through services, not just Manchester.

For Windermere it suggests if Network Rail give the go-ahead to electrify the branch then a through electric service could operate to Manchester.

TPE will probably have 185 and 158 DMUs fairly soon

Until 2018 any 158s will likely be direct replacement for 170s or for operating routes TPE take on which aren't currently TPE routes e.g. Liverpool-Nottingham. If 158s take over 185s duties to Hull, then 185s will be needed to take over 170 duties on South TPE.