Shortest Sleeper train

[Jan Mayen]

I was wondering if there have been anyone short sleeper trains in Britain.

Either short, as in number of carriages.

Or, Origin to destination

Or even, short as in shortest distance between stations where you got on, went to your cabin, then got off (so not the Fort William seated carriage).

Any historical suggestions?

 

[Jessicas Dad]

I was wondering if there have been anyone short sleeper trains in Britain.

Either short, as in number of carriages.

Or, Origin to destination

Or even, short as in shortest distance between stations where you got on, went to your cabin, then got off (so not the Fort William seated carriage).

Any historical suggestions?

I have memories back in the 80s of the Fort William portion of the sleeper running with 2 sleeper coaches and the 2 day coaches.

Not sure you can get much shorter than that and still call it a sleeper

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have memories back in the 80s of the Fort William portion of the sleeper running with 2 sleeper coaches and the 2 day coaches.

Not sure you can get much shorter than that and still call it a sleeper

Not UK, but relating to that example it used to be very common in mainland Europe for there to be single-coach sleeper "trains" which would just get from A to B very slowly being shunted on and off various other trains, but would be a train in their own right with its own train number. They often spent a fair bit of time sat in sidings waiting for their "connection".

 

[zwk500]

Historically weren't there London-Manchester/Liverpool sleeper trains? Not sure if they made a call for pick up/set down in Birmingham, but even then that's going to take some beating unless Steam-era services had such a lower average speed it was worth running a Bristol or Norwich to London sleeper.

Cheeky mention of the Night Ferry which might (on very technical basis) be the shortest sleeper service on british rails

 

[RiverDon]

I saw the Aberdeen sleeper with 3 coaches a couple of months ago.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I was wondering if there have been anyone short sleeper trains in Britain.

Either short, as in number of carriages.

Or, Origin to destination

Or even, short as in shortest distance between stations where you got on, went to your cabin, then got off (so not the Fort William seated carriage).

Any historical suggestions?

Glasgow to Aberdeen at 154 miles will be hard to beat. Journey time asround four hours.

For some summers in the 1960s the Kings Cross to Fort William portion went forward direct from Edinburgh to Fort William as just four coaches.

A good number of sleeper services historically just had one sleeping car but also conveyed seated vehicles and often parcel vans making a longer train

I can add my own two shortest journeys in sleeping cars, Perth to Inverness, 118 miles and Crewe to Euston 2 hours 29 minutes.

 

[Mainline421]

Not UK, but relating to that example it used to be very common in mainland Europe for there to be single-coach sleeper "trains" which would just get from A to B very slowly being shunted on and off various other trains, but would be a train in their own right with its own train number. They often spent a fair bit of time sat in sidings waiting for their "connection".

Still is pretty common, Bucharest-Istanbul and Moscow-Pyongyang are both only one through car attached to various trains enroute.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Historically weren't there London-Manchester/Liverpool sleeper trains? Not sure if they made a call for pick up/set down in Birmingham, but even then that's going to take some beating unless Steam-era services had such a lower average speed it was worth running a Bristol or Norwich to London sleeper.

Cheeky mention of the Night Ferry which might (on very technical basis) be the shortest sleeper service on british rails

I'd forgotten about the Night Ferry!
I did the Machester - London sleeper in 1985.

 

[Clansman]

The Aberdeen sleeper has ran with only 3 coaches a few times since the Mk5s came (have seen variations of 2 sleeper + 1 lounge, and 1 sleeper + 1 lounge + 1 seated).

I believe the shortest trip you can do in a berth on it is still Falkirk Grahamston to Preston, just under 4 hours.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Still is pretty common, Bucharest-Istanbul and Moscow-Pyongyang are both only one through car attached to various trains enroute.

INdeed. I did Belgrade to Istanbul of the Balken Express. I had imagined a train similar to the one used in Muder on The Orient Express. Was a bit surprised to find just one carriage. Mind you, it was the largest cabin I've ever had

 

[High Dyke]

In the YouTube video below. At 5:12 there's a shot of a train comprising two sleeping coaches, a seated coach and brake coach.

 

[The exile]

In terms of short distance - Edinburgh portions to/from Carstairs had separate reporting numbers- so that’s less than 30 miles.

 

[VT 390]

In terms of short distance - Edinburgh portions to/from Carstairs had separate reporting numbers- so that’s less than 30 miles.

Although you can not board/alight at Carstairs from the Edinburgh direction so for passengers the earliest they can alight from Edinburgh is Watford Junction.

 

[Oxfordblues]

Still is pretty common, Bucharest-Istanbul and Moscow-Pyongyang are both only one through car attached to various trains enroute.

Yes, I travelled once from Pyongyang to Rason in the Moscow-bound sleeping car, alighting before the border with Russia. It was a relaxing trip, averaging about 20mph and skirted the unspoilt east coast of Socialist Korea.

 

[The exile]

Although you can not board/alight at Carstairs from the Edinburgh direction so for passengers the earliest they can alight from Edinburgh is Watford Junction.

No - but the same applies to the previously mentioned Night Ferry. In the days of the West Country sleeper alighting at Birmingham would have been possible - though I accept that’s still not exactly short.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Plenty of individual sleeper carriages would enjoy a distinct shunt move to or from a bay platform at an intermediate station. So I was on a Class 08 move off the Night Riviera (which continued as the original train) into a bay at Plymouth. A family member and I were apparently the only customers in the Plymouth coach that night. My last main line Class 08 haulage.

 

[Mojo]

The Down Night Riviera used to have a single carriage that would be uncoupled from the main rake overnight and then lay over for a couple of hours at Plymouth before chucking customers off at a more reasonable time in the morning. It was unfortunately one of the early casualties of the 2006 changes brought about by the Greater Western franchise.

 

[matchmaker]

London to Oban portion of the Royal Highlander in LMS days consisted of a composite sleeper and a corridor brake composite. Attached to a Glasgow to Oban service at - I think - Stirling.

 

[The exile]

The Down Night Riviera used to have a single carriage that would be uncoupled from the main rake overnight and then lay over for a couple of hours at Plymouth before chucking customers off at a more reasonable time in the morning. It was unfortunately one of the early casualties of the 2006 changes brought about by the Greater Western franchise.

The up train logically had one as well (otherwise Plymouth would rapidly run out of siding space). Think a reduction in use by the Navy was a contributory factor to its demise.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

London to Oban portion of the Royal Highlander in LMS days consisted of a composite sleeper and a corridor brake composite. Attached to a Glasgow to Oban service at - I think - Stirling.

Under BR on some out of season dates it was just the sleeping car, any seated passengers changed at Stirling

 

[Pigeon]

When the GWR first began tentatively experimenting with sleeper services one of the arrangements they tried was "composite" coaches in the sense not of the same vehicle having different classes of accommodation, but having different types of accommodation, ie. both sleeping and seated. They apparently weren't sure there would be any demand for more than a handful of berths, so half a coach would suffice.

 

[D6130]

In the YouTube video below. At 5:12 there's a shot of a train comprising two sleeping coaches, a seated coach and brake coach.

That's the London-Fort William through portion going forward as a separate train due to bad weather conditions....to avoid delaying the 06 00 Glasgow Queen Street-Mallaig and missing the ferry connections to the isles.

 

[Magdalia]

Or even, short as in shortest distance between stations where you got on, went to your cabin, then got off

In the 1960s the overnight Bristol-Newcastle mail train conveyed sleeping cars. According to the ER timetable it was possible to book a berth from Sheffield to Newcastle departing at 0107, a distance of about 127 miles.

 

[Mainline421]

In the 1960s the overnight Bristol-Newcastle mail train conveyed sleeping cars. According to the ER timetable it was possible to book a berth from Sheffield to Newcastle departing at 0107, a distance of about 127 miles.

Even today you can book a berth from Reading to Taunton

 

[Merle Haggard]

Historically weren't there London-Manchester/Liverpool sleeper trains? Not sure if they made a call for pick up/set down in Birmingham, but even then that's going to take some beating unless Steam-era services had such a lower average speed it was worth running a Bristol or Norwich to London sleeper.

Cheeky mention of the Night Ferry which might (on very technical basis) be the shortest sleeper service on british rails

In the later 1960s the Manchester - Euston sleeper called Stoke and Northampton, the Up Liverpool one called Crewe, Stafford, Tamworth, Rugby, Northampton and Bletchley.

 

[181]

I have memories back in the 80s of the Fort William portion of the sleeper running with 2 sleeper coaches and the 2 day coaches.

The Aberdeen sleeper has ran with only 3 coaches a few times since the Mk5s came (have seen variations of 2 sleeper + 1 lounge, and 1 sleeper + 1 lounge + 1 seated).

My recollection is that in the late 1990s and early 2000s the Fort William portion usually consisted of 4 vehicles (2 sleepers, lounge and seated coach), and my impression (possibly incorrect) is that it's only fairly recently that they've taken to sending more sleepers to Fort William and fewer to Aberdeen.

For a few years in the late 1980s and early 1990s there was a Poole portion of the West Country to Scotland sleeper, and on the one occasion that I used it, it seemed a surprisingly short train. This picture shows 4 vehicles.

I'm guessing that 4 vehicles might be the shortest sleeper formation that's been regularly scheduled (i.e. not including failures) to run over any significant distance (i.e. not including shunting moves) in the UK in recent decades, but maybe others know differently.

Not UK, but relating to that example it used to be very common in mainland Europe for there to be single-coach sleeper "trains" which would just get from A to B very slowly being shunted on and off various other trains, but would be a train in their own right with its own train number. They often spent a fair bit of time sat in sidings waiting for their "connection"

Still is pretty common, Bucharest-Istanbul and Moscow-Pyongyang are both only one through car attached to various trains enroute.

In 2007 I travelled from Ulan Ude (Russia) to Ulaan Baatar (Mongolia) on the Irkutsk-Ulaanbaatar train, i.e. not the through train from Moscow. If I remember rightly, much of the journey was as part of a long-ish train, but only two coaches made the journey from the last Russian station to the first Mongolian one, which was more than just a shunt (I can't remember exactly how long it took, but the Internet suggests about 40 minutes, which seems right). There were indeed long waits at both border stations. Online accounts suggest that sometimes only one coach crosses the border.

 

[Rescars]

The King's Cross - Leeds sleeper was a pretty short run distance-wise. The bonus was it reached Leeds quite quickly, but you were allowed to sleep in peace for quite a while before being kicked off! When did this stop running? 1984?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

For a short spell during the Mk3 era the Scottish internal sleeper (Glasgow/Edinburgh-Inverness) also included a single sleeping car from Queen Street to Aberdeen conveyed by a parcel service forward from Perth and which returned empty tucked into the formation of a day service. I don't recall ever seeing a pic of this service north of Perth: how long was the service it was attached to? And given the need for a proper shunt at Perth was that shunt done by a shunter or mainline loco?

 

[hexagon789]

For a short spell during the Mk3 era the Scottish internal sleeper (Glasgow/Edinburgh-Inverness) also included a single sleeping car from Queen Street to Aberdeen conveyed by a parcel service forward from Perth and which returned empty tucked into the formation of a day service. I don't recall ever seeing a pic of this service north of Perth: how long was the service it was attached to? And given the need for a proper shunt at Perth was that shunt done by a shunter or mainline loco?

It was attached to a Mk2 push-pull set on the 0110 Perth to Aberdeen/Dyce (depending on year), every Monday to Thursday from 1986 to 1990. Some parcels, papers, etc. were loaded in the van of the DBSO; I have seen a picture of this being done at Perth.

On arrival at Aberdeen (0316) it was detached so the push-pull could be cleaned/watered and so the sleeper passengers could have a longer lie (vacate berths 0730).

The sleeper was then attached to the arriving Mk3 push-pull on the 0725 Glasgow QS to Aberdeen, which returned at 1100/1105.

 

[Western Lord]

In the early 1970's I visited Milford Haven where there was a solitary sleeping car in the siding. I presume it was attached to a loco hauled train, although the service was otherwise all DMU.