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Short sighted Welsh closures.

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merlodlliw

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Certainly would have. The route is well worth walking to the West of this point on that road: http://g.co/maps/5ymke You'd be best going during a very dry spell or when it's icy (realistically it'll be the latter ;) ), as there are some muddy patches in the cuttings over the first 1 1/2 miles. Most of that is fine though (I did the first bit once in trainers), and after that it's either grass and/or ballast.

It's worth making the effort if only for walking the large viaduct about a mile in, though the scenery is good for miles as you're high above the valley.



http://www.railwayramblers.org.uk/homepage/homepage.htm scroll down for a picture of the viaduct, I get the magazine each quarter,The local Railway ramblers did the walk with detail last Autumn, ill see if I can find it.



Found it, A lot of the detail ,is personal so I wont put it all up, but this may be of interest on what they found at Arenig . The photograph on page 48 of Dave Southern's 1995 Foxline paperback, "Bala Junction to Blaenau Ffestiniog" shows how it looked from a passing train in 1959. Arenig's Down Distant signal which was sited here seems to have vanished without trace as has the permanent way hut directly opposite it apart from (as usual) the firegrate and some bricks from the chimney stack!

Bob
 
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Gareth Marston

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Good news, didn't realise, thanks

They were talking about it 10 years ago- I think its penciled in 2015 following CASR.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Extending the London - Carmarthen HST to Aber would put the cat amongst the pigeons for ATW!

It would indeed, but how would the HST get to Aberyswyth,after Carmarthen. The big Uni is at Aberyswyth,but alas the choice is not train travel even though there is service of sorts.
Bangor & Glyndwr appear to have the best used rail services,[/QUOTE]

Treforest whoops Bangors butt - footfall is 1 million now. The station is slap bang next to main campus entrance for Uni of Glamorgan and has 6 tph to Cdf just a 20 min ride away. If Central Wales line southern section was still open it would also have station opposite Uni entrance.
 

thedbdiboy

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Sure, but most of the extant trackbed is in private hands although as others have pointed out you can walk the Cwm Prysor to Trawsfynydd section by courtesy of the landowners. Again, the section south from Blaenau is now designated for the Velorail project (pedal trains!).

A major deviation would be required around Llyn Celyn as proposed before closure of the line.

However I feel that there may come a saturation point with the number of narrow guage railways in North Wales spreading the consumer spend too thinly around all the railways for them all to thrive in the long term.

But if we want to have a fantasy where money is no object, consider extending the LLangollen Railway from Corwen to Bala and thence onwards to Blaenau Ffestiniog. A 100 year project perhaps?

Hey, I recognise that we are in long shot territory here! However, my speculation is based on a number of observations:
  • By extending the existing Ffestiniog you aren't creating a seperate line but are extending an existing one to improve non-car access to explore an area of oustanding natural beauty poorly served by public transport;
  • A narrow gauge line has a much softer environmental impact than a full sized railway;
  • The engineering challenges are less costly;
  • As regards Llyn Celyn, the Ffestiniog have got form for getting round inconvenient reservoirs

For me the 100 year project would be - standard gauge Ruabon to Barmouth - narrow gauge from Bala the Canaerfon through the Snowdonia National Park.

As David Brent said in The Office: 'pipe dreams are good' ;)
 

Polarbear

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I would have gone for putting 2 curves in at Builth Road from the current Central Wales line onto the low level line that closed as a through route in the mid 1960's.

Central Wales line services could then have gone to Builth Wells & reversed, giving much more convenient access to that part of Mid Wales & buses could have been routed to & from that station to act as feeders for the vicinity. I feel it would have helped boost receipts on the mid Wales line as well, as Builth Wells isn't terribly convenient for the town.

It's one of those things that could & should have been done at the time the Beeching cuts were being implemented. There wouldn't be a business case for it today.
 

Rogercas

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[/LIST]

For me the 100 year project would be - standard gauge Ruabon to Barmouth -

I believe that an attempt was made to cost this out as a possible re-opening but failed because the trackbed has been utilised for the Dolgellau bypass and there is no other land corridor on which you could put a railway through the town or valley.

As for Aberystwyth to Carmarthen one proposal mooted was to rebuild from Aber to Lampeter and construct a new line from there to Llandeilio joining the HoWL thereby giving faster access to Swansea.

Realistically however direct north/south links or any major reinstatement in Wales are unaffordable.
 

jones_bangor

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Treforest whoops Bangors butt - footfall is 1 million now. The station is slap bang next to main campus entrance for Uni of Glamorgan and has 6 tph to Cdf just a 20 min ride away. If Central Wales line southern section was still open it would also have station opposite Uni entrance.

Uni of Glamorgan students wanting the Cardiff lifestyle?
 

quarella

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Well obviously with reopening the line via Lampeter (another uni) - as per our conversation!

Currently the route would be via road!

And nobody travels to the uni by train - why is that? People make choices based on options. A crappy two hourly service through no-mans land isn't really much of an option. I'd drive too.

If Aberystwyth students aren't using the train who is travelling Fri - Sun and filling trains on dates that strangely coincide with term dates.
 

merlodlliw

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If Aberystwyth students aren't using the train who is travelling Fri - Sun and filling trains on dates that strangely coincide with term dates.

As discussed many times, some students do use the railway, but its two hours to Shrewsbury, in that time UK students can drive to North/South/West Wales and also be two hours nearer the South of England the key reason the majority use road transport. And of course the two hour wait for the next train at Aber & poor connections off the Cambrian at Salop

My opinion has I see it, Gareth will know better

Bob
 

PR102

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I have both driven to, and taken the train from, Aberystwyth, as a Uni student, down to St.Austell. The old 'Apex' ticket was originally the service to B'ham NS then HST all the way down to Cornwall. Total Journey time 8.5 hours, usually because of a 50 minute change at NS or Wolves. Then the last time I did the journey I was on a 153 to Shrewsbury, then kept on that service down to Hereford and Bristol via Craven etc.

Then to Bristol TM and change for a 158. This was 8h 45mins approx. although only because it stopped everywhere west of Bristol. The car was quicker by between 1h 30 and 2hr 30 (screming the guts out of my 4-sp 993cc nova!)

I walked part of the Aberystwyth-Carmarthen line...most of the algnment was still in place but of course the govt. don't want to get egg on their faces reversing poor decisions of the past (at least it's not the same govt. though!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I did feel that the Cambrian was a very quick route, and was mystified why there wasn't long dynamic loops in place long before their recent attempts to do so? Other than running it all on a shoe-string...
 

Gareth Marston

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Aber Student travel- sea change over last few years more and more Welsh students staying at Welsh Unis due to tuition fee policy's etc, given where population centers are in Wales and rail geography unfortunately the two don't mix well. I can drive to Merthyr from Newtown on 2 hrs - its a 4 hr plus rail trip for example.

Also lot of overseas students who probably aren't inclined to go home for a few days as often as English ones!

You'll still see them though maybe not in numbers of yesteryear.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Uni of Glamorgan students wanting the Cardiff lifestyle?

I've been in office blocks in Cardiff and can see the Uni Of Glam bldgs from the upper floors, come to think of it I've seen them Cardiff Uni bldgs! Natural "on the doorstep" destination with a damn good frequency train service.
 

Gwenllian2001

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I would have gone for putting 2 curves in at Builth Road from the current Central Wales line onto the low level line that closed as a through route in the mid 1960's.

Central Wales line services could then have gone to Builth Wells & reversed, giving much more convenient access to that part of Mid Wales & buses could have been routed to & from that station to act as feeders for the vicinity. I feel it would have helped boost receipts on the mid Wales line as well, as Builth Wells isn't terribly convenient for the town.

It's one of those things that could & should have been done at the time the Beeching cuts were being implemented. There wouldn't be a business case for it today.

Such a curve did exist from south of Builth Road High Level to the Mid Wales line.

The station at Builth Wells was very convenient for the town and would have been for the Royal Welsh Showground, which was opened after the railway closure. The site of the station has now been obliterated by road realignment and commercial developments.
 

Gareth Marston

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Such a curve did exist from south of Builth Road High Level to the Mid Wales line.

The station at Builth Wells was very convenient for the town and would have been for the Royal Welsh Showground, which was opened after the railway closure. The site of the station has now been obliterated by road realignment and commercial developments.

Given the severe road congestion the shows causes around a week each year the station would have been very hand in alleviating it. Around 50-60 thousand people a day go to it.
 

Gwenllian2001

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Given the severe road congestion the shows causes around a week each year the station would have been very hand in alleviating it. Around 50-60 thousand people a day go to it.

The Royal Welsh had, like the National Eisteddfod, been held at a different site each year until it was decided to build a permanent home. The Show Ground was sited with the railway in mind and opened in 1963. Even in the sixties, a considerable amount of livestock still went by train. Unfortunately it was overtaken by events and the railway closed at the end of 1962.

Arriva still runs excursion trains to Builth Road every year with a bus link to the ground but it would have been much better to have had a station on the doorstep.
 

merlodlliw

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The Royal Welsh had, like the National Eisteddfod, been held at a different site each year until it was decided to build a permanent home. The Show Ground was sited with the railway in mind and opened in 1963. Even in the sixties, a considerable amount of livestock still went by train. Unfortunately it was overtaken by events and the railway closed at the end of 1962.

Arriva still runs excursion trains to Builth Road every year with a bus link to the ground but it would have been much better to have had a station on the doorstep.

I am not sure about the show ground having the railway in mind, I used to go to it for many years showing, The RWS is in fact the largest attended rural event in Europe, attracting many more than the NE.
The show is now at capacity & ATW do put on a special for four days when its officially open, but thousands are on the showground from 0900 on Saturday making a week of it I used too.
I agree a nearer station would assist, but this will never happen.
 

Arglwydd Golau

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Aber Student travel- sea change over last few years more and more Welsh students staying at Welsh Unis due to tuition fee policy's etc, given where population centers are in Wales and rail geography unfortunately the two don't mix well. I can drive to Merthyr from Newtown on 2 hrs - its a 4 hr plus rail trip for example.

Also lot of overseas students who probably aren't inclined to go home for a few days as often as English ones!

You'll still see them though maybe not in numbers of yesteryear.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I've just noticed this thread and gone all misty-eyed remembering my train travel to Aberystwyth Univ. between 1973-76 - and I think Gareth Marston is correct, even in those days I suspect that the majority of students using the railway were from England. Of course in those days very few students had cars (I remember noticing something different on my first return to Aber some 15 years later - and then I realised....car parks!!) and not every parent had one either! Even those places relatively near to Aber in railway terms (eg Cambrian Coast and mainline) were just as easy, if not easier with a parental car...and of course there were buses to S. Wales.
However the London bound services were pretty busy at the beginning and end of term, the platform at Wolverhampton HL was always full of students 'looking forward' to a cramped and uncomfortable journey to Aber. The most popular train used to arrive in Aber about 16h45, I think - memory fading but it might have left Euston at 11h40 - I know that I left my home town at 08h15, so I certainly wasn't going to pop home for the weekend.
Incidentally, the train that left Aber at about 10h15 was one of those WR Cross Country units ( I think that is what they were called, not to be confused with....) - it was always a bit more comfortable to sit in the ex-first class compartment..I think I arrived home sometime after 6, carrying suitcase, box of LP's and for the last two years, a cat. Happy days, tho' - remininscence over....
 

swcovas

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Aber Student travel- sea change over last few years more and more Welsh students staying at Welsh Unis due to tuition fee policy's etc, given where population centers are in Wales and rail geography unfortunately the two don't mix well. I can drive to Merthyr from Newtown on 2 hrs - its a 4 hr plus rail trip for example.

Also lot of overseas students who probably aren't inclined to go home for a few days as often as English ones!

You'll still see them though maybe not in numbers of yesteryear.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I've just noticed this thread and gone all misty-eyed remembering my train travel to Aberystwyth Univ. between 1973-76 - and I think Gareth Marston is correct, even in those days I suspect that the majority of students using the railway were from England. Of course in those days very few students had cars (I remember noticing something different on my first return to Aber some 15 years later - and then I realised....car parks!!) and not every parent had one either! Even those places relatively near to Aber in railway terms (eg Cambrian Coast and mainline) were just as easy, if not easier with a parental car...and of course there were buses to S. Wales.
However the London bound services were pretty busy at the beginning and end of term, the platform at Wolverhampton HL was always full of students 'looking forward' to a cramped and uncomfortable journey to Aber. The most popular train used to arrive in Aber about 16h45, I think - memory fading but it might have left Euston at 11h40 - I know that I left my home town at 08h15, so I certainly wasn't going to pop home for the weekend.
Incidentally, the train that left Aber at about 10h15 was one of those WR Cross Country units ( I think that is what they were called, not to be confused with....) - it was always a bit more comfortable to sit in the ex-first class compartment..I think I arrived home sometime after 6, carrying suitcase, box of LP's and for the last two years, a cat. Happy days, tho' - remininscence over....

Also have fond student memories of travel by rail to Aber in the mid late 70s. I was in uni in the Midlands but often used to trek over to Aber for a w/e to stay with friends in uni there. Again, from memory, I think all trains were Salop-Aber with the exception of a late afternoon train originating at Wolverhampton which was almost always a 3 car Swindon 120. This then returned first thing in the morning which I tried my best to make on a Monday morning. A remnant of the Cambrian coast express?

Returning to the original thread and short sighted Welsh closures the Porthcawl branch. this was proposed for closure PRIOR to the Beeching and in 1962 the Tucc recomended retaining the line for the summer only. No final decision came from the MoT and services continued through the winter of 62/3 but after publication of the Beeching Report (which listed it for closure) the service was "suspended" from september 1963. Of course it never re-opened, the final Mot decision to close coming in January 1964, 2 years after the TUCC recomendation.

Today, with a population of about 15,000, Porthcawl is one of the largest towns in Wales without a station. It still attracts large numbers of day trippers during the summer (like Barry Island) and there is a steady commuter/leisure flow between the town and Bridgend/ Cardiff. An hourly service to Cardiff, combining with Maesteg trains, a simple shuttle to Bridgend? Nice ideas but the trackbed disappeared immediately after closure. In reality the local authority were quite happy to see the line close as it created the opportunity to build a mile long dual carriageway into the town and got rid of a troublesome level crossing which, even in the early 60s, created traffic problems in the height of summer.
 

anthony263

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Also have fond student memories of travel by rail to Aber in the mid late 70s. I was in uni in the Midlands but often used to trek over to Aber for a w/e to stay with friends in uni there. Again, from memory, I think all trains were Salop-Aber with the exception of a late afternoon train originating at Wolverhampton which was almost always a 3 car Swindon 120. This then returned first thing in the morning which I tried my best to make on a Monday morning. A remnant of the Cambrian coast express?

Returning to the original thread and short sighted Welsh closures the Porthcawl branch. this was proposed for closure PRIOR to the Beeching and in 1962 the Tucc recomended retaining the line for the summer only. No final decision came from the MoT and services continued through the winter of 62/3 but after publication of the Beeching Report (which listed it for closure) the service was "suspended" from september 1963. Of course it never re-opened, the final Mot decision to close coming in January 1964, 2 years after the TUCC recomendation.

Today, with a population of about 15,000, Porthcawl is one of the largest towns in Wales without a station. It still attracts large numbers of day trippers during the summer (like Barry Island) and there is a steady commuter/leisure flow between the town and Bridgend/ Cardiff. An hourly service to Cardiff, combining with Maesteg trains, a simple shuttle to Bridgend? Nice ideas but the trackbed disappeared immediately after closure. In reality the local authority were quite happy to see the line close as it created the opportunity to build a mile long dual carriageway into the town and got rid of a troublesome level crossing which, even in the early 60s, created traffic problems in the height of summer.

That I shar I do believe it was stupid to close the Porthcawl branch now chance of re-opening it now as you have the M4 and houses in the way although the trackbed is intact near to South Cornelly.

That said I think the bus companies would be up in arms if the line was re-opened considering how many commuters use the X2 service to Cardiff and how many drive to Pyle station to take advatage of free parking and the 30 minute interval of trains serving the station during the peaks.

That said out of the summer season I cannot really see a train service being much used especially off peak.
 

Gwenllian2001

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Returning to the original thread and short sighted Welsh closures the Porthcawl branch. this was proposed for closure PRIOR to the Beeching and in 1962 the Tucc recomended retaining the line for the summer only. No final decision came from the MoT and services continued through the winter of 62/3 but after publication of the Beeching Report (which listed it for closure) the service was "suspended" from september 1963. Of course it never re-opened, the final Mot decision to close coming in January 1964, 2 years after the TUCC recomendation.

You are correct in stating that the service, although suspended, was never resumed. What is perhaps less widely known is that the dismantling of the branch started before the decision to close was known. The station, at Porthcawl, had remained open for the handing in and collection of parcels etc. and the last Station Master, who died a few months ago, was actually sitting in his office when they came to demolish it. I think that is known as 'closure by stealth' but there was little 'stealth' about seeing your place of work knocked down around you.
 
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