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Short formed trains
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northwichcat
Veteran Member
I think it depends on the number of reservations made.
If, for instance, EMT run a 2 car 158 on a 4 car diagram between Liverpool and Nottingham where there won't be more than 40 passengers with reserved seats at any one time then why not keep the seat reservations? (Presuming they haven't issued seat reservations in more than 2 different carriages.)
If on the other hand there's 200 passengers with reserved seats then if you keep them is it fair that passenger who has a reserved seat in carriage C doesn't get one while the passenger who has one in carriage B does?
If, for instance, EMT run a 2 car 158 on a 4 car diagram between Liverpool and Nottingham where there won't be more than 40 passengers with reserved seats at any one time then why not keep the seat reservations? (Presuming they haven't issued seat reservations in more than 2 different carriages.)
If on the other hand there's 200 passengers with reserved seats then if you keep them is it fair that passenger who has a reserved seat in carriage C doesn't get one while the passenger who has one in carriage B does?
northernrailer
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Here is how to seat reservations work on the Liverpool - Nottingham - Norwich route.
4 car units that work the Liverpool to Norwich services, reservations are only placed in the unit that is working the full service, the unit that detaches at Nottingham is always unreserved.
The unreserved carriages should always be the front two on leaving Liverpool.
If a unit is short formed then reservations will still be placed at Liverpool regardless, this is for passengers who have booked their tickets in advance and for passengers who might be reserved further along the line for example between Nottingham / Peterborough and Norwich.
On travelling from Norwich to Leeds on Monday we had 156406 on the 1357 departure and fair play to East Mids there was still reservations placed, maybe not what people had asked for due to a different layout. I was booked forwards table aisle and got backwards window airline, but who cares I got a seat.
Whenever I travel from Peterborough - Norwich or visa versa I always get allocated to carriage A, I presume with it being a two carriage service Nottingham - Norwich they try and keep most if not all reservations in one carriage leaving the other unreserved where possible.
4 car units that work the Liverpool to Norwich services, reservations are only placed in the unit that is working the full service, the unit that detaches at Nottingham is always unreserved.
The unreserved carriages should always be the front two on leaving Liverpool.
If a unit is short formed then reservations will still be placed at Liverpool regardless, this is for passengers who have booked their tickets in advance and for passengers who might be reserved further along the line for example between Nottingham / Peterborough and Norwich.
On travelling from Norwich to Leeds on Monday we had 156406 on the 1357 departure and fair play to East Mids there was still reservations placed, maybe not what people had asked for due to a different layout. I was booked forwards table aisle and got backwards window airline, but who cares I got a seat.
Whenever I travel from Peterborough - Norwich or visa versa I always get allocated to carriage A, I presume with it being a two carriage service Nottingham - Norwich they try and keep most if not all reservations in one carriage leaving the other unreserved where possible.
What a thoroughly refreshing attitude
, according to some on here you should have written to the Managing Director demanding an explanation for this poor service! 
EMT Liverpool to Norwich services come with anywhere up to 146 reservations per train in normal circumstances.
How I deal with them depends on what is going to happen en route. If the train is going to be able to cope with the passenger loadings, they remain in place.
If the train is inevitably going to be leaving lots of people behind and I can't control boarding in any case, for example if it's the 1740 ish off Sheffield to Liverpool on a Friday I withdraw them.
I can't physically drag people off the train to accommodate reservation holders. If I leave them on I end up with people stopping every 5 feet holding up loading and having an argument about vacating a seat on a full train and tempers flare, particularly when they shove past folk in the aisle to get to their seat.
Instead I remove the labels, make lots of announcements advising rights to compensation for reservation holders without a seat and can load the train in an orderly fashion, filling all seats first followed by standing room. It also helps maintain order as people get a sort of blitz spirit and all get annoyed at the TOC for being rubbish rather than at each other which I'm quite happy with if it stops fights breaking out. I've had to deal with actual punch ups on full and standing trains and it's truly terrifying for the bystanders so I'll do anything to avoid that.
Reservation holders are just as likely to be left behind as anyone else (if anything more so as they tend to hang back thinking unfortunately that their reservation means they get on the train no matter what) so when the train is into totally full and standing and leaving folk behind territory due to crush loading my professional experience suggests losing the reservations is the way forward to minimise delays and aggro.
How I deal with them depends on what is going to happen en route. If the train is going to be able to cope with the passenger loadings, they remain in place.
If the train is inevitably going to be leaving lots of people behind and I can't control boarding in any case, for example if it's the 1740 ish off Sheffield to Liverpool on a Friday I withdraw them.
I can't physically drag people off the train to accommodate reservation holders. If I leave them on I end up with people stopping every 5 feet holding up loading and having an argument about vacating a seat on a full train and tempers flare, particularly when they shove past folk in the aisle to get to their seat.
Instead I remove the labels, make lots of announcements advising rights to compensation for reservation holders without a seat and can load the train in an orderly fashion, filling all seats first followed by standing room. It also helps maintain order as people get a sort of blitz spirit and all get annoyed at the TOC for being rubbish rather than at each other which I'm quite happy with if it stops fights breaking out. I've had to deal with actual punch ups on full and standing trains and it's truly terrifying for the bystanders so I'll do anything to avoid that.
Reservation holders are just as likely to be left behind as anyone else (if anything more so as they tend to hang back thinking unfortunately that their reservation means they get on the train no matter what) so when the train is into totally full and standing and leaving folk behind territory due to crush loading my professional experience suggests losing the reservations is the way forward to minimise delays and aggro.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Pragmatic, of course, but if that's happening all the time the TOC should either stop taking reservations for the train, or should put the white R on it and turn unreserved passengers away.
That's only for unplanned short formations. If the train is running as booked I leave the reservations alone as theoretically at least they should be proportional. An example is the SuO 1243 Manchester Picc to Norwich - this is a very busy train but will never be 100% reserved and usually runs fine with a few standees between Manchester and Sheffield only.
If however you take the 1357 Norwich to Liverpool on a Friday if for some reason you take 2 coaches on it I usually remove the reservations after Chesterfield as it will leave people behind all the way to Liverpool from Sheffield, you'll generally find every seat on the train is reserved if it's a 2 car and it's full when it's 4 cars in any case though not to the point of leaving people, unless perhaps there's also football for some reason.
There's no physical means of turning unreserved passengers away from the trains as Nottingham, Sheffield, Man Picc etc are all theoretically open stations - the train will be late as it is, I'm not going to load and unload through one door.
If however you take the 1357 Norwich to Liverpool on a Friday if for some reason you take 2 coaches on it I usually remove the reservations after Chesterfield as it will leave people behind all the way to Liverpool from Sheffield, you'll generally find every seat on the train is reserved if it's a 2 car and it's full when it's 4 cars in any case though not to the point of leaving people, unless perhaps there's also football for some reason.
There's no physical means of turning unreserved passengers away from the trains as Nottingham, Sheffield, Man Picc etc are all theoretically open stations - the train will be late as it is, I'm not going to load and unload through one door.
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