Short fare

[Fjolay]

Hi everyone, I’m new here and I’ve made a stupid mistake that’s been bothering me for a couple of hours now.
I rushed to the station to board a train from Welwyn to Letchworth. I was expecting my colleague to pick me up but he called and said he won’t today as he wasn’t going that route. I was running late so I ran to the station to meet a train meant for 6:28am. I got to the station at 6:27, the till was open so I quickly rushed into the train and bought a ticket from my Trainline. My previous purchase was from Hitchin to Letchworth so I didn’t properly check so I bought it. I realized that there was train officers so I decided to buy the balance of my trip from Welwyn to Hitchin as I already have a ticket from Hitchin to Letchworth which was my destination. When I was about to get to Hitchin the train officer asked for my ticket and I explained what had happened and how I have my full ticket but in 2 tickets which even cost me more. He wasn’t having it and asked his colleague to book me. I was given a ticket and I was told they’ll write to me.

Note : I have short fared on this route before mainly cos the till was always open at the times I’m traveling and returning.
They said they’ll check my travel history and they’ll make a decision from there.
I have never had issues before with transport police and I always buy my full ticket up until last month when a friend told me about how I can short fare.
I feel really horrible right now and I can’t seem to get my mind off the possibilities. I’m happy to pay a fine or something and my fear is prosecution/having to go to court as this would really break me.
I really need help on how to go about this as I would never make this mistake again. This happened this morning

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi.

Could you show us the paperwork the staff member gave you this morning please? Make sure you cover up your name, address and any reference numbers.

 

[30907]

Basically, wait for the letter from GTR, which may take some time to arrive, and come back for advice.

GTR are generally will to offer an out of court settlement if you engage with them.

 

[Fjolay]

Hi.

Could you show us the paperwork the staff member gave you this morning please? Make sure you cover up your name, address and any reference numbers.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Nov 2024 ==

Those are the tickets I got and I got the ticket before I was checked and that’s the receipt I also got from the lady.
All I just want is to get this past me so I can stop stressing. Just worried about the court and everything cos I’ve never been an offender to anything since my existence and this seems to be the first.
I’m happy to pay a fine or anything. I just need help with what to say to them and how I can avoid the court. Thank you

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Nov 2024 ==

Basically, wait for the letter from GTR, which may take some time to arrive, and come back for advice.

GTR are generally will to offer an out of court settlement if you engage with them.

Okay thanks a lot for this. I will be happy to settle out of court. Is there a way I can respond to them when I get the letter to avoid any further issues. Cos I just want to settle and move from it

 

[JBuchananGB]

You are required to buy a ticket for your full intended journey before you board a train. Your intended journey was Welwyn Garden City to Letchworth. You did not have a ticket before you boarded the train. The tickets which you bought were a strange combination. You can expect a letter from GTR railway company intending to prosecute you, and asking for your side of the story.
They may also look at your online account to see if you have made any other strange ticket purchases, and if so they may ask you to explain them.
If you engage with them along the lines advised by many experts in this forum, they might offer you an out of court settlement of all the incorrect fares charged at Anytime Single rate plus about £150 administration fees. Of course from now on be sure to buy a ticket before you get on the train, and make sure the ticket covers the actual journey you are making.

 

[Fjolay]

Yeah I’m happy to pay the cost and I’ll wait for the letter. When I get it I’ll upload it here to get more advice. Thank you

 

[John R]

Your second paragraph seems to try and justify that your purchase on the day was a mistake rather than a deliberate attempt to short fare. Given your admission later on that you have short fared before, I really wouldn’t try and use that excuse when written to. GTR won’t believe you, and will just think that you are still not being honest with them, which might influence how they deal with you, and not to your advantage.

Best to be completely honest and simply apologise for not buying a full fare for your journey on the day.

 

[Fjolay]

Yeah I plan to apologize. That was just an explanation on my part and I don’t mean to use that when I get a letter from them but we’ll see. Thank you

 

[lfg]

Have you done this regulary?
You admitting to have previous deliberately short fared sounds like you do this quite regulary and your "in a rush and accidentally bought wrong ticket" sounds like complete BS, to be frank.
They'll most likely check all your bookings from your Trainline account and probably the scan times from your bookings so will be quite easy to work out your short faring or if you ever doughnut your journey.
I would probably work out how many times you've short fared and calculate the cost of a full priced ticket to give yourself a rough estimate of potential settlement costs and it's important to be honest GTR.

 

[Fjolay]

Sure thanks

 

[Hadders]

Hi everyone, I’m new here and I’ve made a stupid mistake that’s been bothering me for a couple of hours now.
I rushed to the station to board a train from Welwyn to Letchworth. I was expecting my colleague to pick me up but he called and said he won’t today as he wasn’t going that route. I was running late so I ran to the station to meet a train meant for 6:28am. I got to the station at 6:27, the till was open so I quickly rushed into the train and bought a ticket from my Trainline. My previous purchase was from Hitchin to Letchworth so I didn’t properly check so I bought it. I realized that there was train officers so I decided to buy the balance of my trip from Welwyn to Hitchin as I already have a ticket from Hitchin to Letchworth which was my destination. When I was about to get to Hitchin the train officer asked for my ticket and I explained what had happened and how I have my full ticket but in 2 tickets which even cost me more. He wasn’t having it and asked his colleague to book me. I was given a ticket and I was told they’ll write to me.

Note : I have short fared on this route before mainly cos the till was always open at the times I’m traveling and returning.
They said they’ll check my travel history and they’ll make a decision from there.
I have never had issues before with transport police and I always buy my full ticket up until last month when a friend told me about how I can short fare.
I feel really horrible right now and I can’t seem to get my mind off the possibilities. I’m happy to pay a fine or something and my fear is prosecution/having to go to court as this would really break me.
I really need help on how to go about this as I would never make this mistake again. This happened this morning

Frankly, this doesn't sound like a mistake when you also say you've short fared before. Govia Thameslink Railway are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates COurt if they want.

The good news for you is that GTR are normally one of the more pragmatic train companies when it comes to this sort of thing. What happens next is that GTR will send you a threatening latter saying that they have received a report and are considering prosecuting you but asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. It is important that you reply to this letter and I suggest a short, concise reply mentioning the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

GTR are normally prepared to offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fares avoided at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase plus an admin fee, typically £150. They will likely audit your online ticket purchasing history and if this indicates you have done this before they will want to factor the cost of these journeys into the settlement cost. You will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered - payment in installments isn't allowed.

Paying an out of court settlement might feel like paying a fine but technically it isn't - only a court can impose a fine as a punishment upon conviction so you really don't want to pay a fine! You won't have a criminal conviction if you pay an out of court settlement.

When it arrives, post a copy of the letter from GTR in this thread along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you. Do redact any personal details before uploading.

 

[joey_shopping]

How can they audit trainline travel history without court order, doesn't data protection come into play?

 

[John R]

How can they audit trainline travel history without court order, doesn't data protection come into play?

Very simply, if they catch you without a valid ticket their agreement with Trainline allows them to ask for information that might reveal other offences. Users of Trainline will have been notified of that when they sign up to an account with it.

So no, data protection laws permit sharing of information in relation to the investigation of suspected criminal offences, which not having a valid ticket is.

 

[Surreytraveller]

How can they audit trainline travel history without court order, doesn't data protection come into play?

Data Protection does come into play, and Data Protection allows them to do this, as they have a lawful basis.
Data Protection works both ways.

 

[joey_shopping]

Thank you and excuse my ignorance but if someone is using a trainline account as a guest they would not have agreed to any terms. Appreciate signing up for an account would change the dynamics.

 

[reb0118]

Note : I have short fared on this route before mainly cos the  till was always open at the times I’m traveling and returning.

Just for clarification: when you say "till" are you referring to to a staffed ticket desk? Presumably, if that was open then you would just use it, no? Your argument would only make sense if the desk was closed?

However, I suspect that you are referring to the gateline. Not much, if anything, may turn on this but it may cause confusion.

 

[skyhigh]

but if someone is using a trainline account as a guest they would not have agreed to any terms.

By making a purchase, you agree to their terms.

 

[Buzby]

Thank you and excuse my ignorance but if someone is using a trainline account as a guest they would not have agreed to any terms. Appreciate signing up for an account would change the dynamics.

Afraid they would - the T&Cs are implicit with any purchase from them.
See Trainline Terms

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you and excuse my ignorance but if someone is using a trainline account as a guest they would not have agreed to any terms. Appreciate signing up for an account would change the dynamics.

It does not matter if you are a guest or not. Unsurprisingly that doesn’t give you an indemnity to protect your identity if you are suspected of committing fraud or breaking some other law. If you have an issue of your own, please start your own thread.

 

[BazingaTribe]

It does not matter if you are a guest or not. Unsurprisingly that doesn’t give you an indemnity to protect your identity if you are suspected of committing fraud or breaking some other law. If you have an issue of your own, please start your own thread.

They can also match bank details. How I know this is off-topic, but basically they're wise to people who try to use multiple accounts, even just to get a benefit like a free trial for a second time. The email address might be different but as soon as you upload the correct billing details you're matched in their system. (Keeping hold of this data actually helps the customer if there's a loyalty scheme in place but you forget your account details or clubcard or whatever; it's not all one-sided.)

Fraud is fraud. It has an impact on the railways by more onerous revenue protection schemes and less benefit of the doubt being given in the case of mistakes. If you want the railway to treat you as a respected customer, don't try and swindle them yourself.

 

[Hadders]

Thank you and excuse my ignorance but if someone is using a trainline account as a guest they would not have agreed to any terms. Appreciate signing up for an account would change the dynamics.

This sort of thing is allowed under GDPR as it's for the prevention and detection of crime.

Checking out as a guest makes no difference to that - you still leave a significant digital footprint behind.

 

[Fjolay]

Frankly, this doesn't sound like a mistake when you also say you've short fared before. Govia Thameslink Railway are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates COurt if they want.

The good news for you is that GTR are normally one of the more pragmatic train companies when it comes to this sort of thing. What happens next is that GTR will send you a threatening latter saying that they have received a report and are considering prosecuting you but asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. It is important that you reply to this letter and I suggest a short, concise reply mentioning the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

GTR are normally prepared to offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fares avoided at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase plus an admin fee, typically £150. They will likely audit your online ticket purchasing history and if this indicates you have done this before they will want to factor the cost of these journeys into the settlement cost. You will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered - payment in installments isn't allowed.

Paying an out of court settlement might feel like paying a fine but technically it isn't - only a court can impose a fine as a punishment upon conviction so you really don't want to pay a fine! You won't have a criminal conviction if you pay an out of court settlement.

When it arrives, post a copy of the letter from GTR in this thread along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you. Do redact any personal details before uploading.

Hi please I just received an email from Govia as regards my short fairing case that happened previously. I have attached the email here so you can see. I would appreciate if you can help with a good response so I can send back the email to them. Thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jan 2025 ==

Hi please I just received an email from Govia as regards my short fairing case that happened previously. I have attached the email here so you can see. I would appreciate if you can help with a good response so I can send back the email to them. Thanks

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi please I just received an email from Govia as regards my short fairing case that happened previously. I have attached the email here so you can see. I would appreciate if you can help with a good response so I can send back the email to them. Thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jan 2025 ==

See the bullet points in Post #11 for what you need to say in your reply.

Have a go at writing something suitable that covers those bullet points and then post it up here as a draft for people to help check it for you and suggest any improvements.

Avoid using AI/chat GPT to write it. If English is not your first language maybe write in your first language and get google translate to translate it for you into English.

 

[Fjolay]

See the bullet points in Post #11 for what you need to say in your reply.

Have a go at writing something suitable that covers those bullet points and then post it up here as a draft for people to help check it for you and suggest any improvements.

Avoid using AI/chat GPT to write it. If English is not your first language maybe write in your first language and get google translate to translate it for you into English.

This is my response.

Thank you for your letter dated January 6th



I want to say sorry for not having a valid ticket for my whole journey and for any trouble this may have caused.



On the 22nd of November, I traveled with a ticket that didn’t cover my full trip.I am truly sorry for not paying the full fare. I know it was wrong, and I feel bad about it.



I take full responsibility for what I did. Since then, I have made sure to always buy the right ticket for every journey. This mistake has taught me a big lesson, and I now see how foolish I was.



I take full blame for my actions and have made sure to buy proper tickets ever since. I’ve learned an important lesson and realize how silly my behavior was.



I now understand that avoiding paying the entire cost of the journey is unfair and disrespectful to everyone who pays the full fare and seriously harms the rail industry.



I would very much appreciate the opportunity to settle this matter without the need for court action and would welcome the opportunity to pay the outstanding fare in addition to your administrative costs in dealing with this matter.



Thank you, and I hope to hear from you soon.

 

[30907]

A good letter basically but:

1. instead of "I travelled with..." put "I boarded the train with..." because that's what you actually did and that's the offence they can take you to court for.

2. you can cut one of the next two paragraphs as they say much the same.

3. much more seriously, GTR have said you have short-fared before and you have ignored that altogether.
At the very least, change "fare" to "fares" in the last paragraph, but I would be inclined to ask them for a list of the journeys they are concerned about so that you can check against your own records.


PS the mail implies they want a face-to-face discussion, but you can probably avoid this by being cooperative. Don't incriminate yourself, but you need to show you are taking them seriously.

 

[Fjolay]

A good letter basically but:

1. instead of "I travelled with..." put "I boarded the train with..." because that's what you actually did and that's the offence they can take you to court for.

2. you can cut one of the next two paragraphs as they say much the same.

3. much more seriously, GTR have said you have short-fared before and you have ignored that altogether.
At the very least, change "fare" to "fares" in the last paragraph, but I would be inclined to ask them for a list of the journeys they are concerned about so that you can check against your own records.


PS the mail implies they want a face-to-face discussion, but you can probably avoid this by being cooperative. Don't incriminate yourself, but you need to show you are taking them seriously.

Okay thank you.

 

[MotCO]

This is my response.

Thank you for your letter dated January 6th



I want to say sorry for not having a valid ticket for my whole journey and for any trouble this may have caused.



On the 22nd of November, I traveled with a ticket that didn’t cover my full trip.I am truly sorry for not paying the full fare. I know it was wrong, and I feel bad about it.



I take full responsibility for what I did. Since then, I have made sure to always buy the right ticket for every journey. This mistake has taught me a big lesson, and I now see how foolish I was.



I take full blame for my actions and have made sure to buy proper tickets ever since. I’ve learned an important lesson and realize how silly my behavior was.



I now understand that avoiding paying the entire cost of the journey is unfair and disrespectful to everyone who pays the full fare and seriously harms the rail industry.



I would very much appreciate the opportunity to settle this matter without the need for court action and would welcome the opportunity to pay the outstanding fare in addition to your administrative costs in dealing with this matter.



Thank you, and I hope to hear from you soon.

Maybe I am being hyper-critical, but I thought

I want to say sorry

almost implies you want it say it but you can't. Maybe "I would like to apologise for not having a valid ticket for my whole journey and for any trouble this may caused."

I've suggested a tweak to the following sentence and corrected a typo.

I take full blame responsibility for my actions and have made sure to buy proper tickets ever since. I’ve learned an important lesson and realize how silly my behaviour was.

And to reinforce that you have learnt your lesson and will not repeat offend:

I now understand that avoiding paying the entire cost of the journey is unfair and disrespectful to everyone who pays the full fare and seriously harms the rail industry. I will not repeat this error.

 

[flashberry43]

I take full responsibility for what I did. Since then, I have made sure to always buy the right ticket for every journey.

How many tickets at the correct rate have you actually bought since the offence?

 

[Fjolay]

How many tickets at the correct rate have you actually bought since the offence?

Ever since the incident I have always bought all my tickets at the correct care. Over 10 tickets