Shocking performance from Northern as per usual.

[sansyy]

There are no Chester to Leeds services running AT ALL tomorrow on the 21st July and I just think that's absolutely appalling service from any TOC, how are they able to get away with such service as the Northern Connect routes are very popular and should run as much as they can. Not to mention all the northern CLC services are also not running, rather as a bus replacement, but I am guessing that is due to the engineering works scheduled so not too bad.

Not to mention smaller routes like the Southport to Blackburn, Headbolt Lane to Wigan Wallgate, Blackpool South to Colne are all entirely mothballed for the day and honestly they need to sort it out.

 

[splashoutradio]

I belive this Sunday (21st July) is the last week of a significant period of overtime bans within Northern. Some routes, such as Clitheroe, Darwen, Colne, Morecambe, etc. have had no (or severely reduced) Sunday services for quite a while now.

With any luck, there'll be some improvement next week - if nothing else, Northern's Journey Check page isn't yet listing significant disruption for next week, like it has been for the last few.

 

[Starmill]

At least Leeds - Chester and intermediates there's other services by NRCoT-party operators.

Nelson, say, has nothing at all. You've basically been told to sod off, no bus replacement, no ticket acceptance, nothing whatsoever. What sort of customer service is that? They've known about this problem for months on end, but haven't arranged ticket acceptance with Transdev or replacement buses? It's all very "can't be bothered". This corporate policy brings shame on the many good people who work for Northern.

 

[Kite159]

I belive this Sunday (21st July) is the last week of a significant period of overtime bans within Northern. Some routes, such as Clitheroe, Darwen, Colne, Morecambe, etc. have had no (or severely reduced) Sunday services for quite a while now.

With any luck, there'll be some improvement next week - if nothing else, Northern's Journey Check page isn't yet listing significant disruption for next week, like it has been for the last few.

It will help with the end of the overtime ban for drivers, but not for the root cause that Sundays for guards in the north west are voluntary. Nobody volunteering for the overtime= no guards.

What Northern need to do is introduce larger carrots to encourage more guards to volunteer for Sunday overtime

 

[Geeves]

To be fair Southport to Blackburn has been one of the few trains that ran from Victoria relatively consistently at the expense of the Clitheroe line with zero alternatives.

This weekend is a bit different with engineering works at Crow Nest so Southport's are running but only to Wigan, Clitheroe also makes a return with a random hourly, two hourly three hourly services so folks had better chose wisely as it's going to be a while at some points till the next one!

 

[scrapy]

I belive this Sunday (21st July) is the last week of a significant period of overtime bans within Northern.

It is, although ASLEF are currently reballoting for another 6 months mandate, so further action may be announced soon. The overtime ban was to do with industrial relations with management rather than pay and I don't think anything has been resolved. They are in talks with DFT as well this week over pay so this may or may not affect the mood.

 

[Geeves]

Just to add to scrapy's post most of the Sunday cancellations are down to unavailable guards but the RMT are getting close now to having a deal accepted, the rejected an offer recently so it's gone back to the company now. That will make a huge difference in the west moreso than the ASLEF deal in my humble opinion. There's been an overtime ban on Northern now consistently for maybe 6 months? I lose track. RDW for drivers was seemingly agreed but then wasn't this week?

 

[sansyy]

Just to add to scrapy's post most of the Sunday cancellations are down to unavailable guards but the RMT are getting close now to having a deal accepted, the rejected an offer recently so it's gone back to the company now. That will make a huge difference in the west moreso than the ASLEF deal in my humble opinion. There's been an overtime ban on Northern now consistently for maybe 6 months? I lose track. RDW for drivers was seemingly agreed but then wasn't this week?

Lucky them! Must’ve been a nice overtime ban during the euros. Everyone gets to sit at home and watch the euros while the rest of us are stuck in the north of England without a clue to get home.

 

[Geeves]

As always the clue is that "overtime" its not mandatory, folks did their 35 hours and stopped home.

 

[185143]

Lucky them! Must’ve been a nice overtime ban during the euros. Everyone gets to sit at home and watch the euros while the rest of us are stuck in the north of England without a clue to get home.

You could have watched it at home or in your local pub like the train crews enjoying their rest day would have had to do?

 

[sansyy]

You could have watched it at home or in your local pub like the train crews enjoying their rest day would have had to do?

Problem is no one will volunteer for overtime if they’re hungover and unfortunately for them (more so Northern in their internal policies and issues) people should be working a timetable put in place! It’s not minor disruption it’s entire lines going off the rails for an entire day.

 

[185143]

Problem is no one will volunteer for overtime if they’re hungover and unfortunately for them (more so Northern in their internal policies and issues) people should be working a timetable put in place! It’s not minor disruption it’s entire lines going off the rails for an entire day.

Oh I quite agree. The concept of entire lines not being served is completely unacceptable.

However it is not the fault of the staff if they have been given contracts that state Sundays are overtime and entirely voluntary. They are merely exercising their right to their days off, as were the vast majority of the people wanting to watch the football.

For the record, I worked a 12 hour (rostered) night shift for a TOC (not Northern) on the day of the final.

 

[Geeves]

Seems to be this strange issue where in any other industry overtime is the choice of the worker, how ever with the rhetoric of the last government not working overtime (on the railway at least) is seen as "action short of a strike" or "unofficial strike action" can you imagine these terms being thrown at other industries?! Its nothing to do with being hungover or football being on, its the fact that for a decade the government had all of us in their sights for removal, how do you get goodwill from the staff when the powers that be seem to hate you?

Things will improve but its not going to happen overnight, Labour taking the knife away from the staff's proverbial throat will help I am sure!

 

[Sly Old Fox]

Basically, the railway doesn’t have enough staff and it continues to aggravate the ones they do have.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Basically, the railway doesn’t have enough staff and it continues to aggravate the ones they do have.

Indeed but that was policy led by previous govt so one can expect something better here but suspect there will be some short term pain in service reductions to better match available resources though whilst a longer term strategy is put in place.

 

[800001]

Lucky them! Must’ve been a nice overtime ban during the euros. Everyone gets to sit at home and watch the euros while the rest of us are stuck in the north of England without a clue to get home.

So they watched the euros on their perfectly entitled days off? What’s your issue?

 

[The exile]

There are no Chester to Leeds services running AT ALL tomorrow on the 21st July and I just think that's absolutely appalling service from any TOC, how are they able to get away with such service as the Northern Connect routes are very popular and should run as much as they can. Not to mention all the northern CLC services are also not running, rather as a bus replacement, but I am guessing that is due to the engineering works scheduled so not too bad.

Not to mention smaller routes like the Southport to Blackburn, Headbolt Lane to Wigan Wallgate, Blackpool South to Colne are all entirely mothballed for the day and honestly they need to sort it out.

While having no service at all is a pathetic state of affairs and a severe indictment of TOC / government (of both hues) policy over many years, in many ways it is better than a haphazard attempt to run a service and then finding it impossible to run the last 4 or 5 hours' worth of service. At least with no trains at all, everyone knows exactly where they stand.

 

[sansyy]

While having no service at all is a pathetic state of affairs and a severe indictment of TOC / government (of both hues) policy over many years, in many ways it is better than a haphazard attempt to run a service and then finding it impossible to run the last 4 or 5 hours' worth of service. At least with no trains at all, everyone knows exactly where they stand.

Except they were running no replacement transport either! Luckily for my line we are serviced by TfW on a similar route so its not all too bad but all those poor Clithoroe passengers and Blackburn passengers who are expecting to rely on a government ran TOC to get them home! As nice it is knowing there is at least a guarantee the train might not run, at the same time they are moving all responsibility off the railway onto the passenger to get home and most passengers would much rather a way home rather then a delay repay or a ticket refund.

 

[td97]

but the RMT are getting close now to having a deal accepted

Is this to bring Sundays inside the working week?

 

[Geeves]

Is this to bring Sundays inside the working week?

Seems the powers that be have given up on that for now, just various things being negotiated to make it worthwhile for guards to come in really, minimum hours payment etc

 

[Tetchytyke]

Lucky them! Must’ve been a nice overtime ban during the euros. Everyone gets to sit at home and watch the euros while the rest of us are stuck in the north of England without a clue to get home.

"Do you want to come in on your day off and work the last train out of Manchester on the night of the England match? It'll be full of drunks vomiting everywhere and if you're really lucky they might even start fighting each other".

"Sure, where do I sign up".

 

[BoroAndy]

Lucky them! Must’ve been a nice overtime ban during the euros. Everyone gets to sit at home and watch the euros while the rest of us are stuck in the north of England without a clue to get home.

In any industry, or even smaller individual companies, if you rely on overtime to be fully manned then you are not employing enough workers. Overtime should only be necessary if either there is a large sickness situation or extra work required, which is unlikely with fixed timetables.

 

[43066]

In any industry, or even smaller individual companies, if you rely on overtime to be fully manned then you are not employing enough workers. Overtime should only be necessary if either there is a large sickness situation or extra work required, which is unlikely with fixed timetables.

But virtually every industry does so, in order to save costs, and the railway is no exception. There is little appetite to spend a fortune on overmanning only to have “spare” staff sitting around doing nothing.