Shipley triangle..

[Ken H]

At least 6 I think! 1 at each point of the triangle (Shipley Bradford, Shipley Leeds, Shipley Bingley (all with suffix 'Junction'), plus Guiseley Junction for the line to Ilkley, near that was the Great Northern's box for the Shipley Windhill / Thackley / Idle / Exchange 'crossrail' line referred to above, and Shipley Goods, (near Shipley Bradford Junction).
Chris

then when was the east side rationalised? Idle branch closed 1968. when was Leeds and Guiseley Junction merged into 1 box?

I only remember 3 boxes at Shipley, but I probably only go back to 1974 ish.

BTW, I think Shipley Bradford Jct also controlled all the line up to and including Forster Sq. Dont know when that was done.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The question refers to the Bradford FS - Shipley - Leeds - London KX service not the Bradford INT - HX - Brighouse etc service. The Interchange service runs on Wakefield track for part of it's route. There are no 'Wakefield line' track at Shipley Junction.

Of course... I was thrown by the earlier post mentioning Mirfield. All apologies .

 

[Marton]

I seem to remember All the trains from Leeds did that except the loco hauled ones going to carlisle. Maybe someone has an old BR timetable from then.

I think the Morecambes stopped at Shipley. (Except for some saturday trains that did leeds -shipley - Bradford FS - shipley - Keighley -Morecambe and reverse. They were long trains - 8 cars somethmes.)

Wasnt the pattern hourly leeds - Skipton trains with hourly Bradford - Keighley trains that arrived in keighley just before the leeds - Skipton trains for bradford - Skipton pax. There was a reversing siding at Keighley north of the stn.

No Saltaire, Crossflats or Frizinghall stns then. and all mechanical signalling. 3 at Shipley, Bingley, Keighley, Kildwick (Was that just a crossing box? ) and 2 at Skipton. Think there was a box Connonley - that may have just been a gate box too.

My recollection is late 60s and early 70s.

This was the norm with Keighley to Leeds trains stopping twice once on each side of the inner triangle. iirc platforms 2 and 3 as they reserved on the Shipley Bradford junction.

 

[Marton]

Once upon a time, there was a line from Bradford Exchange to Shipley via Laisterdyke, Eccleshill, Idle and Thackley. So Bradford once had a sort of Crossrail, albeit a very indirect one, and one which would have required any through workings to reverse.

But not to Shipley station as we now know it and I don’t think there was any rail connection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipley_and_Windhill_railway_station

 

[30907]

At least 6 I think! 1 at each point of the triangle (Shipley Bradford, Shipley Leeds, Shipley Bingley (all with suffix 'Junction'), plus Guiseley Junction for the line to Ilkley, near that was the Great Northern's box for the Shipley Windhill / Thackley / Idle / Exchange 'crossrail' line referred to above, and Shipley Goods, (near Shipley Bradford Junction).
Chris

But not to Shipley station as we now know it and I don’t think there was any rail connection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipley_and_Windhill_railway_station

There was a rail connection, and at the end Idle was served from the yards at Manningham; railtours also used it. (Just read it in a book from Bradford Libraries, can't remember the title, this was all before my time).

 

[petersi]

View from a signal box at Shipley one of a series

 

[Ken H]

View from a signal box at Shipley one of a series

I assume the scrap wagons were being dropped at Crossleys scrap yard.

At 6:36 you can see the old Shipley Windhill Station.

Nice movie.

 

[TrainTube]

I'm going here in January, I know that the Bradford-Skipton platform and the Bradford-Leeds platform are joined, but roughly how far of a walk is it to the Leeds-Skipton platforms? If a train would depart to Ilkley from Bradford at say 12:00, if I would run would I make it to the platform for the arrival of a Leeds bound train from Skipton at 12:01?

 

[yorksrob]

I'd give yourself five minutes for comfort.

 

[thejuggler]

Probably. Bradford Shipley is about 10 minutes. Skipton Shipley almost 30.

However ex Bradford services always seem to be the ones held up just before Shipley!

 

[matacaster]

I'd give yourself five minutes for comfort.

Agreed its around 150-200 yards and involves going up and down the over bridge or using the lifts. If its busy and he's running, he might also be impeded by other passengers on the path to the Leeds platforms. His only real hope is that the Leeds train is delayed.

 

[matacaster]

I'd give yourself five minutes for comfort.

Agreed its around 150-200 yards and involves going up and down the over bridge or using the lifts. If its busy and he's running, he might also be impeded by other passengers on the path to the Leeds platforms. His only real hope is that the Leeds train is delayed.

 

[30907]

I'm going here in January, I know that the Bradford-Skipton platform and the Bradford-Leeds platform are joined, but roughly how far of a walk is it to the Leeds-Skipton platforms? If a train would depart to Ilkley from Bradford at say 12:00, if I would run would I make it to the platform for the arrival of a Leeds bound train from Skipton at 12:01?

Do you mean the departure times at Shipley, or at Bradford/Skipton?

As it happens, the Skipton-Leeds trains are preceded by the Bradford-Leeds ones, so (except late evenings/Sundays) it's academic anyway, but the layout wouldn't allow such a tight headway, as the trains mentioned share a section of track.

 

[30907]

I'm going here in January, I know that the Bradford-Skipton platform and the Bradford-Leeds platform are joined, but roughly how far of a walk is it to the Leeds-Skipton platforms? If a train would depart to Ilkley from Bradford at say 12:00, if I would run would I make it to the platform for the arrival of a Leeds bound train from Skipton at 12:01?

Do you mean the departure times at Shipley, or at Bradford/Skipton?

As it happens, the Skipton-Leeds trains are preceded by the Bradford-Leeds ones, so (except late evenings/Sundays) it's academic anyway, but the layout wouldn't allow such a tight headway, as the trains mentioned share a section of track.

 

[Sapphire Blue]

Of course, the only true Triangle station closed in 1929.

 

[Sapphire Blue]

.....

 

[TrainTube]

Do you mean the departure times at Shipley, or at Bradford/Skipton?

As it happens, the Skipton-Leeds trains are preceded by the Bradford-Leeds ones, so (except late evenings/Sundays) it's academic anyway, but the layout wouldn't allow such a tight headway, as the trains mentioned share a section of track.

I mean at Shipley, I used those times to show the difference, I believe the actual times Im talking about are xx17, xx18 and xx37, xx38. I'm not actually going to board the train, but taking photos, and one could be a 321/322.

 

[TrainTube]

Agreed its around 150-200 yards and involves going up and down the over bridge or using the lifts. If its busy and he's running, he might also be impeded by other passengers on the path to the Leeds platforms. His only real hope is that the Leeds train is delayed.

Im not actually boarding the train, but taking photos. The reason I would run is to see a 321/322, if I would see a 333 coming in I would stop running!

 

[Class195]

Im not actually boarding the train, but taking photos. The reason I would run is to see a 321/322, if I would see a 333 coming in I would stop running!

You’ll not be able to do it a minute. As others have said you’ll have to cross the car park and then head on the narrow path to platform two before going up and over the bridge to platform one.

 

[30907]

I mean at Shipley, I used those times to show the difference, I believe the actual times Im talking about are xx17, xx18 and xx37, xx38. I'm not actually going to board the train, but taking photos, and one could be a 321/322.

The xx08/38 to Leeds from 3 typically departs as soon as the xx07/37 from Leeds arrives on 2. Similarly the xx15/45 to Leeds very soon after the ××14/44 from Ilkley. Short of standing on the Leeds end of 3 with a telephoto, there's not much you can do...

 

[The Lad]

I thought that singling of the Bradford-Skipton platforms was due to the 333s being longer and therefore insufficient clearances.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I thought that singling of the Bradford-Skipton platforms was due to the 333s being longer and therefore insufficient clearances.

It was singled long before the wires came, the original alignment was too sharp even for mk1s.

 

[Midland Man]

I've just come across this discussion and can add a bit more information.
Until the 1960s some down trains (e.g. the Saturdays only Morecambe train) from Leeds and Bradford combined in platform one. The Bradford loco was detached and shunted into the angle sidings. The Leeds portion was then authorised via Shipley Bingley Junction disc signal 13 to shunt back over the unlocked facing (to the movement) points 8, as allowed at the time by the Signalman's General Instructions (only recently removed from the Train Signalling Regulations). (Up trains for Leeds/Bradford had split at Saltaire originally, then later at Keighley or Skipton.)
Prior to the Beeching closures of local stations in 1965 the general pattern of local train services was hourly - centred on Bradford, not Leeds, with diesel trains to Skipton, Ilkley and Leeds (City) at hourly intervals (half hourly in the peaks, at least Bradford/Skipton). Skipton and Leeds trains connected at Shipley for the relatively few passengers who travelled between Airedale and Leeds. After March 1965 the service pattern changed to services between Leeds and Skipton, Bradford and Ilkley and Bradford and Keighley. Up trains from Skipton to Leeds were routed via platforms 2 (now 5) and 3, while down trains went via platforms 4 and 1 until April 1966, to avoid setting back over Bingley Junction's unlocked facing point 8 on a regular basis as this was not deemed to be a 'shunt' move. Point 8 was then fitted with an FPL (lever 4) and trains then set back into platform 1 via a new ground disc 2 adjacent to disc 13 (which then read into platform 2).
The new platform 5 (now 2) was brought into use on 14th May 1979, initially for down trains only. A new crossover (points 14) was provided near Saltaire and from 9th March 1980 up Leeds trains could use platform 5, crossing back at Guiseley Junction. Up trains for Bradford were routed briefly via platform 1 (using a pilotman), then from 30th March via what was now a single line through platform 2 (platform 1 taken out of use).
On 25th July 1992 a new up platform 1 was provided on the Shipley curve, and platforms 2 and 5 exchanged numbers. I signalled the first train into this new platform!
I hope this has been of interest.
David L (former relief signlman, Shipley).

 

[Midland Man]

then when was the east side rationalised? Idle branch closed 1968. when was Leeds and Guiseley Junction merged into 1 box?

I only remember 3 boxes at Shipley, but I probably only go back to 1974 ish.

BTW, I think Shipley Bradford Jct also controlled all the line up to and including Forster Sq. Dont know when that was done.

Shipley Leeds Junction box closed 20th July 1975. Shipley Bradford Junction controlled the remaining lines and signalling to Forster Square (using a small NX panel on the block shelf) from (I think) 1984.
David L

 

[30907]

It was singled long before the wires came, the original alignment was too sharp even for mk1s.

...but 57ft DMUs were OK of course -

Until the 1960s some down trains (e.g. the Saturdays only Morecambe train) from Leeds and Bradford combined in platform one. The Bradford loco was detached and shunted into the angle sidings. The Leeds portion was then authorised via Shipley Bingley Junction disc signal 13 to shunt back over the unlocked facing (to the movement) points 8, as allowed at the time by the Signalman's General Instructions (only recently removed from the Train Signalling Regulations). (Up trains for Leeds/Bradford had split at Saltaire originally, then later at Keighley or Skipton.)
..... Point 8 was then fitted with an FPL (lever 4) and trains then set back into platform 1 via a new ground disc 2 adjacent to disc 13 (which then read into platform 2).

Thanks for filling in some missing details for me (and others!). The issue with the absent FPL hadn't struck me before.

 

[Midland Man]

...but 57ft DMUs were OK of course -

I forgot to mention that at some point, possibly with the introduction of the first generation DMUs (although that may have been coincidental), but certainly before my first visit to Shipley Bingley Junction in 1961 there had been an incident where two passenger trains occupying platforms 1 and 2 came into contact. The result was that from then on all trains composed of coaching stock had to be signalled between Bingley Jct and Bradford Jct as 'Out of Gauge Loads' using the bell signal 1-2-6 to block the opposite line before offering the train using the normal bell signal (i.e. not 2-6-3). This continued until the line was singled , using platform 1 briefly then platform 2 permanently as I described. It was rare indeed after that to have two movements passing through platforms 1 and 2 at the same time, but why no-one thought of singling the lines until 20 years later I don't know!

Thanks for filling in some missing details for me (and others!). The issue with the absent FPL hadn't struck me before.

It was only when I became involved in the detail of signalling as a signalling manager, ops trainer, and latterly a regional inspector that I appreciated the subtlety in respect of the SGI (most recently TS1 9.2.2) relating to setting back over unlocked facing points i.e. what was and what wasn't a shunting move!

David L

 

[30907]

I forgot to mention that at some point, possibly with the introduction of the first generation DMUs (although that may have been coincidental), but certainly before my first visit to Shipley Bingley Junction in 1961 there had been an incident where two passenger trains occupying platforms 1 and 2 came into contact. The result was that from then on all trains composed of coaching stock had to be signalled between Bingley Jct and Bradford Jct as 'Out of Gauge Loads' using the bell signal 1-2-6 to block the opposite line before offering the train using the normal bell signal (i.e. not 2-6-3). This continued until the line was singled , using platform 1 briefly then platform 2 permanently as I described. It was rare indeed after that to have two movements passing through platforms 1 and 2 at the same time, but why no-one thought of singling the lines until 20 years later I don't know!

Thanks for filling in some missing details for me (and others!). The issue with the absent FPL hadn't struck me before.

It was only when I became involved in the detail of signalling as a signalling manager, ops trainer, and latterly a regional inspector that I appreciated the subtlety in respect of the SGI (most recently TS1 9.2.2) relating to setting back over unlocked facing points i.e. what was and what wasn't a shunting move!

David L

I think I knew trains weren't allowed to pass on the curve, but didn't realise that was done by bell code. Of course, there weren't so many trains back then...

 

[Bevan Price]

You’ll not be able to do it a minute. As others have said you’ll have to cross the car park and then head on the narrow path to platform two before going up and over the bridge to platform one.

And on my occasional visits to Shipley, the footbridge seems to be a preferred location if they are doing any ticket checks.

 

[Midland Man]

I think I knew trains weren't allowed to pass on the curve, but didn't realise that was done by bell code. Of course, there weren't so many trains back then...

For part of the day, post dieselisation from 5th January 1959, we had trains every half hour (same as now) between Bradford and Skipton so if there was any late running there could be delays as one train had to wait for the other to pass through - a bit like the situation with the new platform 5 (now P1) when that was brought into use bi-directionally. There were, however, only a small number of other passenger trains (e.g. the 'Morecambe Residential' and the 'Carlisle Slow'), trip workings, light engines, empty stocks etc through platforms 1 and 2 in addition to the diesels so for the most part it worked fine. After the 1965 closures the pattern changed with fewer movements but Bingley Junction was always an interesting box to work and I feel privileged to have been able to witness it (and the other Shipley boxes) both as a semi-official visitor and later in a paid capacity.
David L

 

[Bantamzen]

And on my occasional visits to Shipley, the footbridge seems to be a preferred location if they are doing any ticket checks.

Ticket checks generally happen at the bottom of the footbridge on P1, both entrances to P2, the car park exits for P3 & P5, and the subway for P4. However they are generally sporadic, and focused around the times kids are travelling to schools & during busy holiday periods like Christmas.

 

[matacaster]

then when was the east side rationalised? Idle branch closed 1968. when was Leeds and Guiseley Junction merged into 1 box?

I only remember 3 boxes at Shipley, but I probably only go back to 1974 ish.

BTW, I think Shipley Bradford Jct also controlled all the line up to and including Forster Sq. Dont know when that was done.

I seem to remember boxes at manningham and just outside forster sq Station?

 

[Midland Man]

From Bradford: Bradford (Forster Square), (and Bradford Goods), Manningham Station Junction, Manningham Sidings, Frizinghall, Shipley Goods, Shipley Bradford Junction etc etc.
David L