Sheffield Supertram Master Thread

[sheff'd victoria]

Following on from the excellent tram threads of Manchester and Blackpool started by Paul Sidorczuk, I asked him if I may start one about the Sheffield tram system .....and here we are.

" Most " of Sheffield residents have come to love the Sheffield tram network, after a shakey start with bad management from South Yorkshire PTE, Stagecoach who now run the tram have turned the present system around, the ongoing issue of the lack of inner city tram exstention continues to frustrate the people of Sheffield, this when other "new" tram systems seem to be going full steam ahead.

If anyone has used the Sheffield tram network I would love to know what you thought of it and what improvement you would like to see, their is funding ( after a 20 year wait ) for real time infomation displays to be put firstly at number of tram stops on the Meadow"hell" side of the system.

Ive included a few links below including a video of the planned exstentions to Dore & Fulwood that were turned down by the Labour government around 2006/7

http://www.supertram.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertram_(Sheffield)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9NdDh-egl8

 

[gordonthemoron]

The trams are much better than the ones in Manchester and Birmingham, not been to Croydon but my UK favourite trams are in Nottingham.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It's a decent system, the only real bugbear I have with it is the lack of real time info, which I think should be compulsory for such schemes, especially on the Herdings Park line (I think) where it's only 2 trams an hour. The bus / tram ticket is good value for money and I managed get the whole network done in time for the first afternoon Sheffield-York via Baghill departure when I did it, such was the frequency and good connections after a rather late start for me.

Now, to get that third side of the triangle done :mad:

 

[34D]

I'd also like to do the third side of the triangle. Surely on say Saturday daytimes (at least) there would be demand for a direct Halfway-Meadowhall service?

There's a 6 week partial closure coming up over Summer.

 

[Zoidberg]

...

... the ongoing issue of the lack of inner city tram exstention continues to frustrate the people of Sheffield, this when other "new" tram systems seem to be going full steam ahead.

...

You'll not be referring to Edinburgh's wee train set there. Read about the latest fiasco at http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-e...ms-section-of-track-to-be-ripped-up-1-2950473

Extract -

Edinburgh trams: Section of track to be ripped up

MORE than 150 metres of concrete laid as part of the tram works will have to be ripped up following a sub-contractor blunder, the News can reveal.

The concrete between Haymarket and Shandwick Place will have to be redone, with estimates suggesting the work will take up to four weeks.

...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Congratulations on the launch of this thread, which has had a good response on its first day. I would like to know if the hopes of the proposed line to Dore are being subject to sources of funding. Is it correct that a bid for grant monies from the Sheffield Region Infrastructure Fund towards the hoped-for fulfillment of this line extension project ?

 

[WillPS]

It's a decent system, the only real bugbear I have with it is the lack of real time info, which I think should be compulsory for such schemes, especially on the Herdings Park line (I think) where it's only 2 trams an hour. The bus / tram ticket is good value for money and I managed get the whole network done in time for the first afternoon Sheffield-York via Baghill departure when I did it, such was the frequency and good connections after a rather late start for me.

Now, to get that third side of the triangle done :mad:

They now have QR codes at the tram stop which you can scan and quickly get real time info. Pretty good if not as good as a screen with info - surprised they haven't done that given a fair few bus stops in town have!

The Dore extension would have created a comprehensive system. As it stands, the tram serves 3 out of 4 corners. Not bad, still.

I'd like to see innovation in ticketing. Smart cards and contactless must be doable? Also - is this the only Stagecoach business using old school Wayfarer machines?

When do the new trams arrive?

 

[button_boxer]

They have recently introduced smart cards for weekly and monthly tickets, I have one for the "Megarider Xtra" auto-renewing monthly. At present you have to touch on a bus machine to load an online purchase onto the card - the tram conductors only have handheld card readers that can see what's on the card but can't modify it - but several conductors have told me that new machines are coming in in the next few weeks with integrated readers, and they're going to start scanning all itso cards including ENCTS passes.

 

[30mog]

I live at Halfway. So use it for reliable connections to trains in Sheffield, where it near enough stops in the station. My existing bug bear is that the route into town is not direct. A faster bus service is available nearer my front door. But with only two an hour, at best, you have to plan more to use it. Though, the said bus is also a Stagecoach service so day tickets are interchangeable. Sometimes wish I could walk a few hundred yards further to a re-instated Halfway & Killamarsh station.

I would rather see City to Dore re-quadrupled for Network Rail than for Supertram. That said, with current innovations the tracks could be made available to trams and trains. And any development of either needs to consider a station just before Totley tunnel. As this could enable onward connections to Hope Valley & Manchester. And could also retain a Sheffield connection, should Nottingham-Liverpool trains be speeded up half an hour by using Dore Curve. Not to mention improve transport for Totley itself.

I feel a good opportunity for Supertram not as yet considered is. To extend from Herdings Park along the central reservation of the outer ring road to a terminus somewhere along the A61. Herdings Park is a white elephant of a spur at the moment. Greater usage could also be generated by building a park and ride site in the vicinity.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

You'll not be referring to Edinburgh's wee train set there. Read about the latest fiasco at http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-e...ms-section-of-track-to-be-ripped-up-1-2950473

Extract -

Ive just read about the problems of the tram in Edinburgh in Rail Magazine, who are the contractors bodgit and scarper ?

I would like to know if the hopes of the proposed line to Dore are being subject to sources of funding. Is it correct that a bid for grant monies from the Sheffield Region Infrastructure Fund towards the hoped-for fulfillment of this line extension project ?

South Yorkshire PTE asked for funding around 2005/6 ( I think ) for the Dore line, it was turned down by the Labour government who wanted Sheffield to improve its bus corridors.

Nick Clegg ( MP For Sheffield Hallam ) has said that the Dore extension will come, the bad news is he his talking about the year when/if we get HS2

I would rather see City to Dore re-quadrupled for Network Rail than for Supertram. That said, with current innovations the tracks could be made available to trams and trains. And any development of either needs to consider a station just before Totley tunnel. As this could enable onward connections to Hope Valley & Manchester. And could also retain a Sheffield connection, should Nottingham-Liverpool trains be speeded up half an hour by using Dore Curve. Not to mention improve transport for Totley itself.

I feel a good opportunity for Supertram not as yet considered is. To extend from Herdings Park along the central reservation of the outer ring road to a terminus somewhere along the A61. Herdings Park is a white elephant of a spur at the moment. Greater usage could also be generated by building a park and ride site in the vicinity.

The tram will not go to Totley sorry to say, if you were not aware their was a large row from the NIMBYS in that area when a new bus turning circle was put on green belt land, this was due to the owners of the Cross Scythes PH not renewing the lease agreement with the bus companies to use the bus turning circle. Bus companies refused to go up to Owler Bar and local residents objected to a turning area nearer Totley.

Due to this the feeling is that the NIMBYS at Totley have done more damage than good and any tram services will terminate at Dore station.

As for the Herdings Park line their was talk of taking this though Norton and to finish at a new Park & Ride / Bus Interchange at Meadowhead, this for some reason has been knocked on the head by South Yorkshire PTE ???

 

[30mog]

Due to this the feeling is that the NIMBYS at Totley have done more damage than good and any tram services will terminate at Dore station.

Why is it no other countries have NIMBYS

As for the Herdings Park line their was talk of taking this though Norton and to finish at a new Park & Ride / Bus Interchange at Meadowhead, this for some reason has been knocked on the head by South Yorkshire PTE ???

Maybe the old Jordanthorpe school site now occupied by the VW/Audi dealership would have been the destination? Cars, cars, b***dy cars again eh?

Elsewhere I have suggested Sheffield Victoria being re-opened as a terminus for all local trains that call at Rotherham. Or, converting them to tram trains that would cross to Supertram tracks at Meadowhall South. Run on existing tracks to Castle Square before turning left onto a new section leading to a terminus in Arundel Gate or Moor area - necessary as tram-trains probably need higher platforms meaning they can share tracks but not stopping places. Either would free up capacity exiting Sheffield station northbound - more of a problem than southbound solutions given the series of tunnels exiting Sheffield northwards. From more recent study I add this possibility. Reinstating track on the embankment that previously carried trains from near Brightside Station to Tinsley Yard as a Network Rail to Supertram link between existing Meadowhall station and Carbrook tram stop. Would prevent a future with Meadowhall possibly having three stations to confuse, and put off, passengers. And would address the fact that over the years since closure Sheffield Victoria has become further away from the attractions of the City Centre - and so less attractive to re-open. A fact soon to be exacerbated by the re-location of Sheffield Markets to Moorfoot.

However, I fear the recent demolition of two bridges on the aforementioned link may have rendered the latter idea cost prohibitive? And tram-trains joining NR tracks at Brightside might impinge on earlier capacity gains unless a flyover arrangement is built, itself very costly?

 

[WillPS]

Elsewhere I have suggested Sheffield Victoria being re-opened as a terminus for all local trains that call at Rotherham. Or, converting them to tram trains that would cross to Supertram tracks at Meadowhall South. Run on existing tracks to Castle Square before turning left onto a new section leading to a terminus in Arundel Gate or Moor area - necessary as tram-trains probably need higher platforms meaning they can share tracks but not stopping places. Either would free up capacity exiting Sheffield station northbound - more of a problem than southbound solutions given the series of tunnels exiting Sheffield northwards. From more recent study I add this possibility. Reinstating track on the embankment that previously carried trains from near Brightside Station to Tinsley Yard as a Network Rail to Supertram link between existing Meadowhall station and Carbrook tram stop. Would prevent a future with Meadowhall possibly having three stations to confuse, and put off, passengers. And would address the fact that over the years since closure Sheffield Victoria has become further away from the attractions of the City Centre - and so less attractive to re-open. A fact soon to be exacerbated by the re-location of Sheffield Markets to Moorfoot.

Cathedral - 'the triangle' can already get pretty wedged with trams under the right circumstances...

 

[oddiesjack]

Nick Clegg ( MP For Sheffield Hallam ) has said that the Dore extension will come, the bad news is he his talking about the year when/if we get HS2

Given Nick Clegg's past record on promises and pledges (tuition fees etc) I would suggest that if says there will be a Dore extension, there won't be!

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Maybe the old Jordanthorpe school site now occupied by the VW/Audi dealership would have been the destination? Cars, cars, b***dy cars again eh?

The talk was the Meadowhead P&R, Tram/Bus Interchange was to go on the Sheffield Transport socal club land to the left of the roundabout.

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=me...=NVPHG3V6f5YAG7BsGwJbKA&cbp=12,308.03,,0,0.43

Given Nick Clegg's past record on promises and pledges (tuition fees etc) I would suggest that if says there will be a Dore extension, there won't be!

Im sure UKIP will pick up on this in the 2015 election, he knows his seat is not that safe

 

[30mog]

The talk was the Meadowhead P&R, Tram/Bus Interchange was to go on the Sheffield Transport socal club land to the left of the roundabout.

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=me...=NVPHG3V6f5YAG7BsGwJbKA&cbp=12,308.03,,0,0.43

Know area well, was brought up a drop kick away. I was nearly right


Im sure UKIP will pick up on this in the 2015 election, he knows his seat is not that safe

UKIP...Like 'em to a point but not sure they are looking to capture the Green vote.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

UKIP...Like 'em to a point but not sure they are looking to capture the Green vote.

Their are 2 Green Councillors in Sheffield's Central ward and they are all for the tram been exstended.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Im sure UKIP will pick up on this in the 2015 election, he knows his seat is not that safe

Given the large student population of Sheffield Hallam (and the history of Sheffield being considerably more left-leaning than right) I don't think the threat to the DPM will come from UKIP!

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Given the large student population of Sheffield Hallam (and the history of Sheffield being considerably more left-leaning than right) I don't think the threat to the DPM will come from UKIP!

Fair point, however im sure the people of Sheffield dont care if it was Zippy Bungle or George in charge, all they want is more tram routes built in the City

 

[edwin_m]

Fair point, however im sure the people of Sheffield dont care if it was Zippy Bungle or George in charge, all they want is more tram routes built in the City

I imagine more tram routes would actually be fairly low on their list of priorities.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is there any truth in the rumour that the tram-train trial date has been put back another year from 2015 to 2016 ?

 

[WatcherZero]

Heard something like that, also that the details of the rolling stock order would be announced/completed soon.

 

[30mog]

From the page where details of upcoming track work are given on Supertram website:

"The work being carried out will be aligned with the planned tram train pilot project which was announced by the Department for Transport (DfT) in May 2012. The project, which is expected to be in operation by 2016, will see a new tram train link –operated by Supertram - between Sheffield and Rotherham."

 

[sheff'd victoria]

From the page where details of upcoming track work are given on Supertram website:

"The work being carried out will be aligned with the planned tram train pilot project which was announced by the Department for Transport (DfT) in May 2012. The project, which is expected to be in operation by 2016, will see a new tram train link –operated by Supertram - between Sheffield and Rotherham."

I do wonder what the Department for Transport will learn from this project, and what they will take from it ?

Again £56 million quid is a lot of money to spend between Meadowhall and Rotherham which both have good transport links between both of them

 

[WatcherZero]

Been mentioned elsewhere that theyve already found from the project a few minor tweaks in heavy rail standards and tolerances were cheaper and more efficent way of achieving cross network compatability than large changes in light rail standards.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

http://http://www.railwaygazette.co...iew/rotherham-tram-train-contract-signed.html

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...iew/rotherham-tram-train-contract-signed.html

"Rotherham tram-train contract signed
20 June 2013

UK: A firm contract for Vossloh España to supply seven vehicles for the Sheffield - Rotherham train-tram pilot scheme was signed on June 19.

The £58m project will provide a tram-train service between Sheffield and Rotherham Parkgate using a new 400 m connection between the existing Supertram network and a Network Rail freight line which is to be electrified at 750 V DC.

The tram-trains are to be built at Vossloh's Albuixech plant near Valencia in Spain and are scheduled to enter service in 2015. They will have Vossloh Kiepe equipment suitable for both 750 V DC and 25 kV 50 Hz power supplies, to allow for use under future main line electrification.

The tram-train pilot project is being led by South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive, which has placed the rolling stock order, in partnership with the Department for Transport, Network Rail, franchised train operator Northern Rail which was responsible for selecting Vossloh to supply the vehicles, and tram operator Stagecoach Supertram.

Stagecoach Supertram was recently visited by 15 National Union of Road Transport Workers members from Lagos in Nigeria, who were in Sheffield to study how public transport operates in the UK. 'We are only too happy to share our good practice with worldwide business leaders and continue to develop and strengthen these relationships', said SYPTE Deputy Interim Director General, David Young."

 

[30mog]

This creates more questions than answers.

Are Supertram also still getting new trams for existing routes? Talk was, so that a 5min headway would be possible between Gleadless Townend and Hillsborough.

Yes I understand tram train trial will run on tram tracks in the city. But, is it intended for rail services to continue as now while trams run on NR tracks. As in, stand at Rotherham Central and see trams and trains depart from same platforms? And if so, can't see how the very different platform levels are going to be integrated, especially for disabled passengers?

And finally. Aren't Northern Rail supposed to be a project partner? And if so why the assumption the tram trains will be in Stagecoach colours?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Might as well ask here - does Supertram do point-to-point (or zone-to-zone etc) or similar fares or is the only ticket for any journey the £3.80~ tram / bus combined?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ah, I see, singles only. In that case, does anyone know how much a single Hyde Park-Station-Hallam Uni is?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Ah, I see, singles only. In that case, does anyone know how much a single Hyde Park-Station-Hallam Uni is?

Do they not still do a day rover type ticket? ( Can't remember the name of it! )

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Do they not still do a day rover type ticket? ( Can't remember the name of it! )

They still have the bus / tram ticket, yes, £4 I believe (I referred to it above). I am only doing the third side of the triangle however, so I don't intend to buy one for what is a five minute tops trip! I'd settle for the £1.50 minimum fare

Edit - I meant 'singles only' as they don't do returns - only singles and then the rover.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Ah I see - the third side!