Sheffield/Rotherham Tram-Train update

[YorkshireLad]

Sounds like we'll be waiting a while longer yet before the train tram services start.

Plans for a new tram-train link between Sheffield and Rotherham have been hit by another delay.

The £58m project will enable trams to run on tramlines in the city centre and onto train tracks between Meadowhall and Rotherham.

It was originally due to begin operating in 2015, but was delayed until 2017.

But Network Rail has now announced that the 2017 date will be missed.

A spokesman for South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive said: “We have been notified that Network Rail can no longer complete the tram train infrastructure works to timetable, for passenger services to start in early 2017 as planned.

 

[dmncf]

Sounds like we'll be waiting a while longer yet before the train tram services start.

I think the Sheffield-Rotherham Tram-Train trial has been very helpful in demonstrating whether tram-trains could be successful in the UK. It has proved we are incapable of implementing a tram-train system.

 

[snowball]

It was the lead item on BBC Look North (Leeds) this lunchtime. SYPTE haven't seen the report that NR promised earlier in the year and are working on the assumption that the link will become operational in summer 2018. NR says it's discussing the report with DfT.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-38103252

 

[WatcherZero]

I think the Sheffield-Rotherham Tram-Train trial has been very helpful in demonstrating whether tram-trains could be successful in the UK. It has proved we are incapable of implementing a tram-train system.

Ironically in the Autumn Statement the Government confirmed the 2014 provisional funding for the Glasgow Airport Tram-train link due to begin construction in 2022.

 

[D365]

It has proved we are incapable of implementing a tram-train system.

Neither does it seem that we are capable of building any sort of tram line in Yorkshire since the original Supertram.

 

[TC60054]

Neither does it seem that we are capable of building any sort of tram line in Yorkshire since the original Supertram.

If anything, it proves that the DfT are incapable of funding it.

 

[Harpers Tate]

It's my understanding that the DFT and funding are not at all responsible for the delays. The delay is wholly down to Network Rail.

 

[D365]

It's my understanding that the DFT and funding are not at all responsible for the delays. The delay is wholly down to Network Rail.

There's a whole host of reasons why NR has seemed sorely incapable of completing any kind of infrastructure upgrades on time.

 

[edwin_m]

There's a whole host of reasons why NR has seemed sorely incapable of completing any kind of infrastructure upgrades on time.

I think that's a little unfair - lots of projects have completed on time/budget, Norton Bridge to name but one. And Reading was a year early I believe!

The problem seems to be mainly with projects that include novel engineering, such as tram-train, or engineering that is novel to Network Rail, such as OLE (due to the loss of expertise since the last major scheme in the 1990s).

 

[TC60054]

It's my understanding that the DFT and funding are not at all responsible for the delays. The delay is wholly down to Network Rail.

I was relating more to the numerous planned extensions to Supertram that were turned down.

 

[D365]

The problem seems to be mainly with projects that include novel engineering, such as tram-train, or engineering that is novel to Network Rail, such as OLE (due to the loss of expertise since the last major scheme in the 1990s).

Those are the kind of situations I was getting at, in fact.

 

[Mark62]

There's a whole host of reasons why NR has seemed sorely incapable of completing any kind of infrastructure upgrades on time.

I absolutely agree.
Network rail seem to have no intention of completing this tram project.
Has anyone seen Network rails attempt to build the new platform at Doncaster?
I have been monitoring this since it started and their progress is lamentable.
I have been watching at least four network rail staff analysing an isolated turn out at Hexham for two years. Why? These people seem to be totally unaccountable.
Has anyone been monitoring Network rails attempt to close the Gainborough to Barnetby line via Brigg? Have a look in their local press and they have gone out of their way to make travelling on the three remaining trains as hard as possible. They have indulged in the old BR tactics in the benching era of deliberately spending money on unnecessary repairs in order to distort the business case for expansion. BR Did this when they wanted a line to close.
I digress
How long will network rail get away with their activities?
Who is really surprised that they don't want to compete the super tram project?

 

[syorksdeano]

Are the trams still going to be used in service from January?

Sent from my SM-T555 using Tapatalk

 

[TC60054]

Are the trams still going to be used in service from January?

Sent from my SM-T555 using Tapatalk

Expecting April, although as commissioning hasn't yet started I wouldn't get your hopes up.

 

[DimTim]

Catenary uprights have started to appear over the last week & have now reached behind Rotherham United football ground where the Holmes Chord branches off.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Catenary uprights have started to appear over the last week & have now reached behind Rotherham United football ground where the Holmes Chord branches off.

Plus one more by the Main St bridge, and lots in a stockpile in the compound off Field Way. Also many piles which had been covered with plywood have now gained steel caps ready for masts, so get your unobstructed photos of the section between Rotherham Central Junction and Parkgate now!

Plus, foundations and brickwork have been started for the Parkgate plaftorm. Photos over at rmweb:

 

[snowball]

According to the January Modern Railways, p. 14, the rail minister Paul Maynard confirmed in a written answer to a Parlimentary question on 30 Nov that NR now expects the infrastructure work to be completed in summer 2018. The start of passenger services would be subject to testing of the infrastructure and operational arrangements as well as driver and staff training.

 

[eastwestdivide]

That's disappointing.
Major works still visibly on the to do list:
- Connect the chord to the tram network
- Finish the platforms at Rotherham and Parkgate
- Put up masts from approx Rotherham Central Junction to Parkgate
- Wiring

Don't know if any bridge works/track lowering are going to be needed, or if any power supply works are needed to feed the new section of overhead.

 

[TC60054]

That's disappointing.
Major works still visibly on the to do list:
- Connect the chord to the tram network
- Finish the platforms at Rotherham and Parkgate
- Put up masts from approx Rotherham Central Junction to Parkgate
- Wiring

Don't know if any bridge works/track lowering are going to be needed, or if any power supply works are needed to feed the new section of overhead.

The chord needs connecting at both sides.

 

[eastwestdivide]

The chord needs connecting at both sides.

The connection is already there on the Network Rail side:

But last time I looked, the track on the chord itself, under the M1, was nowhere near complete.

 

[TC60054]

The connection is already there on the Network Rail side:

But last time I looked, the track on the chord itself, under the M1, was nowhere near complete.

That bit is connected. If you move down to the actual chord itself, it is not connected to that track shown in your photo - the fence is still in, as is the case at the Supertram side.

People use that set of points to say that it's connected all the time, but that's nothing but a misconception.

 

[eastwestdivide]

I think we're splitting hairs on what the chord consists of.
If we take the chord to be "the new track necessary to connect the two existing systems", then the chord clearly has its connection into the Network Rail track, but otherwise, yes, the trackwork on the chord isn't complete, and there's also been no connection laid in to the Supertram tracks.

 

[ALEMASTER]

I'm led to believe the connection to the tramway is due to be installed at Easter - the shopping centre at Meadowhall is closed Easter Sunday so it is viewed as the least disruptive time to close the tramway for engineering work there.

 

[snowball]

There was an item about it on BBC Look North (Leeds) today, reporting that it won't open until summer 2018, but that's merely catching up with the info already posted in #287. There doesn't seem to be a corresponding item on the BBC News website at present.

The delay is said to be associated with the alleged difficulty of designing the OHLE to be compatible with both the currently proposed 750V DC and the possible future conversion to 25kV AC.

 

[D365]

So... what exactly are Network Rail and Stagecoach learning from this 'pilot project'?

 

[TC60054]

So... what exactly are Network Rail and Stagecoach learning from this 'pilot project'?

By the looks of it, Stagecoach are learning that the vehicles that they've bought have a very poor reliability and that Network Rail are next to useless at building this extension

 

[Mordac]

By the looks of it, Stagecoach are learning that the vehicles that they've bought have a very poor reliability and that Network Rail are next to useless at building this extension anything

Fixed that for you.

 

[Harpers Tate]

If:
- the latest bit of dicking about is because the catenary has to be bespoke so as to permit both 750vDC operation at the outset yet with easy conversion to 25kvAC operation if it's ever electrified for trains
- the tram train vehicles are already delivered with dual-voltage ability
- this is a pilot project to test aspects of running tram-trains
- other potential sites for tram-trains might already be electric railways (at 25kvAC)

surely it would have been quicker, and a better and more complete pilot, to have "simply" erected 25kvAC masts and used that voltage from day 1 (or 1001 depending on your point of view).

 

[TC60054]

- the tram train vehicles are already delivered with dual-voltage ability

This was part of the specification for the 399 vehicles, because of the eventuality that there may be further extensions and NR standard electrified routes.

 

[D365]

surely it would have been quicker, and a better and more complete pilot, to have "simply" erected 25kvAC masts and used that voltage from day 1 (or 1001 depending on your point of view).

There isn't the money to get the 25kV feeder equipment in place. Especially seeing as progress with the Midland electrification programme has long been lacking.