Sheffield/Rotherham Tram-Train update

[Harpers Tate]

Suggested because they don't have an off the shelf standardised 750v DC overhead design they are in a quagmire of red tape not able to approve any designs for the line until the technology component library itself has been approved.

If that's true, then perhaps they should have done it with standard 25kv gear - after all, the vehicles are supposed to work on either, and it would have afforded a further degree of pilot/testing strategy.

 

[Mordac]

399204 was delivered in the early hours of the morning.

Photo:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/modeltrains33/27790856403/in/dateposted/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/modeltrains33/27790854403/in/photostream/

Any idea when they'll start service?

 

[Greybeard33]

If that's true, then perhaps they should have done it with standard 25kv gear - after all, the vehicles are supposed to work on either, and it would have afforded a further degree of pilot/testing strategy.

25kV electrification would have required either:
- a 25kV feeder cable strung all the way along the line from Rotherham to Doncaster, to tap the supply off the ECML; or:
- a dedicated local Grid Supply Point from a 400kV or 275kV Supergrid transmission line, just for this little island of electrification.

I should think that either would have comprehensively blown the tram-train budget.

 

[TC60054]

Any idea when they'll start service?

Still no date given sadly.

 

[snowball]

Still no date given sadly.

What about running the tram-train vehicles on the existing Supertram network?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Any idea when they'll start service?

Have these long delayed trials even started, let alone a service provision?

 

[Mordac]

What about running the tram-train vehicles on the existing Supertram network?

Yeah, that's what I was talking about, not service on the newbuild bit.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Well, no new build bit, in fact. So nowhere to run a trial. I expect we'll see the new vehicles (with tram tyres) running on the existing tram system long before any meaningful work is done on the Network Rail bit.

 

[Mordac]

There was meant to be some testing at night time and so on before they were introduced in revenue service on the existing network. This is what me and Paul Sidorczuk were asking about: when is this going to be over and revenue service on the existing network starting.

 

[SuperOwl86]

I was under the impression that Supertram are re casting the timetable so they can use some of the new trams on the current network,

 

[IanXC]

Isn't there something about the track renewals being completed on the main network, something about the wheel profiles on the tram-train vehicles?

 

[TC60054]

There was meant to be some testing at night time and so on before they were introduced in revenue service on the existing network. This is what me and Paul Sidorczuk were asking about: when is this going to be over and revenue service on the existing network starting.

I was under the impression that Supertram are re casting the timetable so they can use some of the new trams on the current network,

Correct and correct. A time for this to happen has not yet been released though and they're still all undergoing testing. More minor issues has set the introduction to service back yet again.

Isn't there something about the track renewals being completed on the main network, something about the wheel profiles on the tram-train vehicles?

The vehicles are being introduced onto the network with tram profile wheels, and when the Rotherham extension opens then four "units" are being fitted with the tram-train profile, which allows them to traverse between Sheffield Station, Shalesmoor, Meadowhall, and of course Rotherham.

That will be the case until about 2019 when the entire rail replacement program is finished and the track network wide will be to tram-train profile standard.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Isn't there something about the track renewals being completed on the main network, something about the wheel profiles on the tram-train vehicles?

Two wheel profiles:
(1) Suitable for heavy rail track, plus relaid sections of the on-street tram system
(2) Suitable for the non-relaid on-street tram tracks; not suitable for heavy rail.

Seven vehicles in total; wheelsets can be exchanged between them. Three for service plus one spare intended for the Rotherham service; three intended to supplement the existing fleet and allow capacity (frequency) increases.

 

[button_boxer]

That will be the case until about 2019 when the entire rail replacement program is finished and the track network wide will be to tram-train profile standard.

They've replaced the rails between Shalesmoor and Hillsborough already but I didn't think there was any plan for tram-trains to go beyond Shalesmoor (or even beyond Cathedral on a regular basis, only as a contingency in case the Cathedral crossover is out of use).

 

[TC60054]

They've replaced the rails between Shalesmoor and Hillsborough already but I didn't think there was any plan for tram-trains to go beyond Shalesmoor (or even beyond Cathedral on a regular basis, only as a contingency in case the Cathedral crossover is out of use).

The rails have not been replaced the full way between Shalesmoor and Hillsborough. The crossover at Shalesmoor is indeed if the Cathedral crossover is out of use, and indeed they will be unable to use the platform at Shalesmoor.

 

[D365]

... and indeed they will be unable to use the platform at Shalesmoor.

Why is that the case?

 

[TC60054]

Why is that the case?

Unless I am mistaken, the rails across the road and into the platform have not been replaced or modified.

 

[D365]

Unless I am mistaken, the rails across the road and into the platform have not been replaced or modified.

Is the crossover far back enough that a tram stopping to reverse will not need traffic to stop? (See the attached image)

As an aside, I was wondering for some time why the crossover exists, but I remember reading that Shalesmoor was a temporary terminus when the Supertram was under construction.

 

[DimTim]

On Google Earth there is a tram just pulling into Shalesmoor. Without measuring it appears it would fit between the crossing & the hatch marks. How much of the track has been replaced after the crossing I am not aware.

 

[Harpers Tate]

As an aside, I was wondering for some time why the crossover exists, but I remember reading that Shalesmoor was a temporary terminus when the Supertram was under construction.

That, plus it offers flexibility for any of:
- late running, trams turned round short to fill gaps in service
- amended service pattern to meet demand either throughout or at peak times
- amended service pattern for track closures
- amended service pattern for road or track obstruction eg for traffic accidents
and so on.
The same would be true of crossovers at Crystal Peaks, Gleadless Town End, Spring Lane and so on and so on.....

 

[TC60054]

Is the crossover far back enough that a tram stopping to reverse will not need traffic to stop? (See the attached image)

As an aside, I was wondering for some time why the crossover exists, but I remember reading that Shalesmoor was a temporary terminus when the Supertram was under construction.

Emergency crossover, was used in construction and used when a Malin Bridge service is running late. Until October 2015, there was also a Halfway - Shalesmoor / Shalesmoor - Herdings Park peak working in the timetable which used the crossover.

On Google Earth there is a tram just pulling into Shalesmoor. Without measuring it appears it would fit between the crossing & the hatch marks. How much of the track has been replaced after the crossing I am not aware.

A tram can fit between the signal protecting the road crossing and the crossover, although it is rather tight. With regards to track replaced after the road crossing, there is a little bit through Infirmary Road stop, and then Langsett through to Hillsborough has been replaced.

 

[J-2739]

Any idea when they'll start service?

It said on Wikipedia that they would start service in August.

 

[TC60054]

It said on Wikipedia that they would start service in August.

That Wikipedia article is out of date, there were delays in the commissioning initally which put the deliveries of 399202-399204 back, and they're not expected to enter service until December at the earliest now, although with all the recent setbacks...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Latest goings on at Parkgate...

https://twitter.com/TomCousins60054/status/760527878056468480

 

[button_boxer]

A tram can fit between the signal protecting the road crossing and the crossover, although it is rather tight.

When they were replacing the rails on West Street there was a service between Middlewood and University using single line working up Netherthorpe Road. A tram would leave the Shalesmoor stop, cross the road and pull up just short of the crossover, the driver would then get out and switch the points to allow the preceding tram (which by this time was heading back down Netherthorpe Road wrong line) to cross back, hand over the token, and finally proceed into the platform at Shalesmoor.

It all seemed to work pretty smoothly most of the time, and was certainly quicker than making the downhill driver get out and switch the points themselves.

 

[TC60054]

399201 has been released from its hiding place in the paintshop now fully fixed after its altercation with 399202, and also a full repair on its earlier one from its meeting with tram 125, although neither end sports any numbers both ends now carry Supertram logos again. 399202 looks like it is now mostly fixed.

 

[snowball]

I didn't know any of them had been in any collisions. That sounds a bit careless, before they've even been in service!

 

[Mordac]

This post at SkyscraperCity has some nice photos of new work on the chord and some OHLE gantries which have been popping up.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Those odd bits of catenary gear have been there, largely unchanged, for many months. It almost looks like the work started and then someone with a clipboard said .....hang on a minute.... and it all ground to a halt.

I heard a rumour that someone at Network Rail realised they had never done 750v DC OHLE before, and therefore, despite the fact that others have done miles of it, and they themselves have done miles of 1500vDC (which is presumably fairly similar) it has disappeared into the Rocket Science office........

 

[snowball]

I heard a rumour that someone at Network Rail realised they had never done 750v DC OHLE before, and therefore, despite the fact that others have done miles of it, and they themselves have done miles of 1500vDC (which is presumably fairly similar) it has disappeared into the Rocket Science office........

That certainly seems to have been the gist of the events in May (see above in this thread, especially pages 12-14).

NR were supposed to be reporting back to "stakeholders" "by the summer" (see quote in post #177). I haven't heard that this has happened.

 

[WestRiding]

That certainly seems to have been the gist of the events in May (see above in this thread, especially pages 12-14).

NR were supposed to be reporting back to "stakeholders" "by the summer" (see quote in post #177). I haven't heard that this has happened.

They keep taking T3s every bloody day, and nothing ever seems to get done on the ground.