Sheffield-London Capacity from December

[222001]

EMT are saying that more seats are going to be available on this route from December. I do not see how this is possible when 7 car Meridians are going to be used on nearly all services instead of HSTs.

7 car Meridians only have 12 more standard seats than a 5 car Voyager! The few Meridian diagrams that are currently on the Sheffield-London route are struggling with loadings. Do EMT really plan to use that many 2*5 car Meridians (which have 27 more standard seats than a HST) on this route to increase seating over what it is now.

Anybody know what the plan is?

 

[richa2002]

The new timetable is generally just a botch job to be honest.

 

[P156KWJ]

I think it's a publicity stunt - the only trains with extra capacity will be the one or so that will be 2x 5+5 meridian (10 car). The new timetable is a shambles. :roll:

 

[me123]

I think you'll find that 2x5+5 makes 15 cars, whilst 2x(5+5) makes 20 cars. Either way, 2x5+5 car meridians are not 10 cars...

2x5 car meridians, on the other hand, are. As are 5+5 car meridians.

 

[richa2002]

Pedantry all over the place.

 

[Spaceflower]

What about a 2(5+5)-10 car meridian?

 

[devon_metro]

Ambitious timetables often fall apart at the seams. HSTs should be on the longer Sheffield services, not stopping service. It doesn't take a fool to work that out!

 

[AlexS]

They're on the fast Nottinghams which make fewer stops than the Sheffields!

 

[richa2002]

'Fast' Nottinghams stop at Market Harborough, Leicester and East Midlands Parkway if I remember correctly. And the Sheffields stop at Leicester, Derby and Chesterfield. So proportionally, the Sheffields have fewer stops.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Pleh, you don't know what's gone on behind the scenes, a lot of hard work went into that timetable to accomodate a service which will be underused. What's needed...are more trainsets.

 

[P156KWJ]

'Fast' Nottinghams stop at Market Harborough, Leicester and East Midlands Parkway if I remember correctly. And the Sheffields stop at Leicester, Derby and Chesterfield. So proportionally, the Sheffields have fewer stops.

Three each Cos the fast Nottinghams are crrently either Leicester only or Leicester & Loughbrough, and some on Sundays are Leicester, Loughbrough, Beeston

 

[richa2002]

Three each Cos the fast Nottinghams are crrently either Leicester only or Leicester & Loughbrough, and some on Sundays are Leicester, Loughbrough, Beeston

But as I explained, proportionally, Sheffield has fewer stops.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Pleh, you don't know what's gone on behind the scenes, a lot of hard work went into that timetable to accomodate a service which will be underused. What's needed...are more trainsets.

Hmm, that hard work obviously didn't come up with anything that great. What's needed is to stop obsessing over cutting a few minutes off a service at the expense of passenger convenience.

 

[P156KWJ]

sorry I don't quite understand what you mean by 'proportionally' in this context? Probably just me

 

[richa2002]

sorry I don't quite understand what you mean by 'proportionally' in this context? Probably just me

Well, Nottingham fasts take about 1hr 45 mins to St. Pancras and Sheffields take 2hrs 20 mins (via Bradway Tunnel). So with the Nottingham service there is on average a stop every 35 minutes but the Sheffield service on average stops every 47 minutes.

 

[P156KWJ]

well yeah, tbh, I really don't care which train goes where just as long as it's a decent length lol, although I wouldn't bother upgrading to 1st class on a meridian, but would do on a HST

 

[gordonthemoron]

Meridian 1st class is quite nice actually

 

[class 313]

Meridian 1st class is quite nice actually

STD class seats are better than the FC seats though!

 

[gordonthemoron]

But they don't have the leg room

 

[richa2002]

Well, First Class seats are a bit better than Standard Class but not by a lot. Personally, I just travel by first class for a nicer experience, very few reprobates, at-seat service and in an HST's case, nicer seats and being right next to the power car.

 

[David Pemberton]

All the "hard work" that has gone into getting Sheffield a faster service hasn't even advanced us as far as 1992, when it took 2 hrs 8 mins for the Master Cutler-type service to get to London in the morning (see page 22 of www.uctc.net/scripts/countdown.pl?114.pdf)

That service used HSTs... rather than Mr Shoveller's "race car" Meridians.

EMT are spinning the move of HSTs to Nottingham/London as giving an advantage of providing 700 more seats per day. That amounts to about 1.5 extra trains (assuming about 440 seats on an HST). Or does it if 8 car HSTs are replacing 5,7 & 5+5 Meridians?

Who knows? But if they are so proud of their new timetable why aren't they putting even pdfs on their website until 14 November? In business there is an old saying that bad news takes longer to publish than good news.

 

[P156KWJ]

they haven't even got paper versions available!

 

[Urobach]

All the "hard work" that has gone into getting Sheffield a faster service hasn't even advanced us as far as 1992, when it took 2 hrs 8 mins for the Master Cutler-type service to get to London in the morning (see page 22 of www.uctc.net/scripts/countdown.pl?114.pdf)

That service used HSTs... rather than Mr Shoveller's "race car" Meridians.

EMT are spinning the move of HSTs to Nottingham/London as giving an advantage of providing 700 more seats per day. That amounts to about 1.5 extra trains (assuming about 440 seats on an HST). Or does it if 8 car HSTs are replacing 5,7 & 5+5 Meridians?

Who knows? But if they are so proud of their new timetable why aren't they putting even pdfs on their website until 14 November? In business there is an old saying that bad news takes longer to publish than good news.

Probably because EMT, like most other train companies, are using the "clever" "my timetable", which only shows certain journeys. The timetable is available, just not like the whole one that MML had.
http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/EMTrains/Times/createtimetables.htm
Turn pop ups off but otherwise its self explanatory

 

[David Pemberton]

It's been available here for about three weeks:
http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/en/pj/apyot

This is the easiest one:
http://www.freewebs.com/railwayuk/emtnewtimetable.xls

But my point was taken from their own press release which says:
"Copies of the new timetable will be available from Friday 14 November at East Midlands Trains’ stations and on the website, eastmidlandstrains.co.uk. Passengers can also register to receive their own personalised timetable when full details are released in November, register now on eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/myjourneys."


In full here:
http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/emtrains/aboutus/news/#{D64B0AD6-4A01-49FA-A0C7-6B92A017E036}

So proud of their new timetable they don't want you to see it in full!

 

[222001]

I've been reading in many places that the Sheffield and Corby services will be diagram sharing with a mix of 5 and 7 car Meridians used. I hope it is not true that 5 car Meridians will be used on some Sheffield services as that will be a complete disaster even in the off peak. That would mean that 5 car Meridians will be used on services that were previously operated by a HST.

 

[David Pemberton]

Modern Railways, November 2008, Page 72:

"Pioneers for Corby

As Modern Railways closed for press, confirmation was expected that agreement had been reached... four Class 222 sets to EMT. ...although the process to transfer the units may cause a slight delay beyond the 14 December..."

 

[me123]

I've been reading in many places that the Sheffield and Corby services will be diagram sharing with a mix of 5 and 7 car Meridians used. I hope it is not true that 5 car Meridians will be used on some Sheffield services as that will be a complete disaster even in the off peak. That would mean that 5 car Meridians will be used on services that were previously operated by a HST.

I've heard that some Sheffield services will have a 5 car unit in place, including some busy ones hock: Absolute farce, IMHO. Judging on passenger numbers, a 7 car is suffient most of the day (from what I've seen, anyway), but the 5 cars are an absolute joke.

 

[paul1609]

Isnt it actually 2 x 5 car or 7 car?
of course if this was Stagecoaches south of the Thames franchise you expect to be paying premium fares for 3 + 2 seating on many journeys with the same journey time.

 

[class 313]

I can see HSTs being put back on Sheffields if EMT think they can get away with placing 5 car Meridians on them! :@

 

[222001]

Modern Railways, November 2008, Page 72:

"Pioneers for Corby

As Modern Railways closed for press, confirmation was expected that agreement had been reached... four Class 222 sets to EMT. ...although the process to transfer the units may cause a slight delay beyond the 14 December..."

Brilliant! That should really help out EMT! Also from what I've been reading it could mean that Sheffield could have 2 trains per hour by extending the Derby services which would be great. And also one of them could be used on Liverpool-Norwich??? but I don't see that.

 

[richa2002]

I can see HSTs being put back on Sheffields if EMT think they can get away with placing 5 car Meridians on them! :@

It takes a lot for these arrogant people to admit they're wrong though.