Sheffield - Cardiff high fares

[Old Timer]

In a 'pie in the sky' world, Britain should introduce an equivalent to the 'half-fare' discount card in Switzerland. It's available to anyone (even foreign nationals) and gives the passenger 50% of all railway fares and a discount on most buses and trams. Such a card, if introduced in Britain, would encourage people who wouldn't normally use buses to use them to get to the nearest station.

If everyone has a discount Railcard then why not just go the whole hog and reduce fares, then you can save on the admin for the Railcard system

 

[jon0844]

Because the industry gets money invested up front, can reward regular travellers and allows the charging for higher ticket prices for those who either don't care about discounts, or travel so infrequently for it not to be worth getting a railcard for.

Of course, it does mean a national railcard is likely to have a higher price tag than a YPRC or senior railcard, which are issued for slightly different reasons.

However, you do make a good point - but the chance of cutting ALL fares by 30% is, erm, slim.

 

[radamfi]

The advantage of a having a Railcard is that you put the train on more of a level playing field with the car as the marginal cost of extra train trips is lower.

The prices of the Swiss, Dutch and German Railcards are somewhat higher than a Senior/16-25 etc. Railcard:

Swiss 50% off card: 165 francs (about £114)
German 25% off card: 57 euros (about £49)
German 50% off card: 230 euros (about £198)
Dutch 40% off card: 55 euros (about £47)

 

[jon0844]

I would pay £100 or more for a card that gave a 33% reduction nationwide on the train, and possibly more if you could get a partner card included, or available at a discount.

Of course, there's one problem with a national railcard and that is this; while anyone that travels a lot would get one, the media (or anyone with an axe to grind) will still continue to compare anything else against the full price ticket!

 

[tbtc]

there's one problem with a national railcard and that is this; while anyone that travels a lot would get one, the media (or anyone with an axe to grind) will still continue to compare anything else against the full price ticket!

That's it.

I mentioned on here recently about the First Class fare from Sheffield to Market Harborough (?) going up by 26% in about 1998, whilst other Midland Mainline fares went up by normal inflation (the Market Harborough ticket was apparently to correct an anomoly from years ago).

Did the press say "Train fares rise 3%?". Of course not, they had billboards with "shock 26% rise in ticket prices hits commuters" (or something similar), regardles of the real impact on 99.9% of passengers being nothing like that.

Notice the way opponents to HS2 talk of the "£250 single" as being a typical ticket price (and not just the undiscounted peak time/ Open ticket)? Whereas with Airlines we are all suckered into thinking Easyjet/ Ryanair prices are the equivalent of a Mars Bar (because the press never mention the £300 tickets which they can charge to balance up the ones they give away for pennies)?

/rant

 

[jon0844]

While I can't understand why anyone would buy those £300+ tickets on a low cost airline unless it was the ONLY seat available (once they get that expensive, you'd surely opt for a 'proper' carrier? Who would accept the poor treatment you get on a low cost airline when you've paid so much?), it's pretty obvious to anyone that they do exist - so why the media chooses to ignore that, I do not know.

If they didn't have those expensive tickets, the airlines would go out of business!

Even Metro today talked about the '13% fares increase' in the headline, with the 'up to 13%' bit in the body copy. Of course, it's true that there are 13% increases (for SET) but I do hate it when headlines aren't strictly true. Still, it's not going to change is it? Headlines are there to attract attention, and it's commonly accepted you can twist things as much you want.

 

[tbtc]

While I can't understand why anyone would buy those £300+ tickets on a low cost airline unless it was the ONLY seat available (once they get that expensive, you'd surely opt for a 'proper' carrier? Who would accept the poor treatment you get on a low cost airline when you've paid so much?), it's pretty obvious to anyone that they do exist - so why the media chooses to ignore that, I do not know.

If they didn't have those expensive tickets, the airlines would go out of business!

Even Metro today talked about the '13% fares increase' in the headline, with the 'up to 13%' bit in the body copy. Of course, it's true that there are 13% increases (for SET) but I do hate it when headlines aren't strictly true. Still, it's not going to change is it? Headlines are there to attract attention, and it's commonly accepted you can twist things as much you want.

Contrast the "full price" fares on Easyjet/ Ryanair (which do exist, and some desperate people will purchase) with the £1,000 open First Class ticket from Falmouth to Kyle of Lochalsh (?) which I'm not aware of anyone ever buying (but existed as a theoretical fare in the manual)... which gets more media coverage?

 

[WillPS]

It is odd how the media focuses on the £1 RyanAir tickets... I actually dislike that business model - arguably the same as Stagecoach Rail take with Megatrain.

Fact was, under Midland Mainline it was relatively straightforward to get a ~£10 single to London from Nottingham. Almost overnight, that stopped and the price rose to around ~£18 and is now closer to £20. Granted, there are now SOME headline £1 Megatrain fares, but on the whole the price has effectively pretty much doubled for me to get to London.

The same is true on Liverpool - Norwich, although I accept that there are other forces at work which have decreased the availability of seats on this route.

I prefer the First model of offering a lot choice somewhere in the middle; I've always found it dead easy to get £12 SHF-BPN etc.

 

[jon0844]

But we all know that there aren't that many £1 tickets anymore. It's a game with Ryanair vs the EU - and to get away with not having to include those fees, they become 'optional' but only on certain flights/tickets. The check-in fee is sold as an extra cost because you can sometimes have this waved. Ditto, you can save the booking fee if you have a specific card (that changes from time to time) and now it's per person, per flight (nice!).

Of course, these fees - which most people will probably pay (and often a lot more as they won't realise just how strict Ryanair is on things like baggage, carry on bags, checking in at the airport because your computer crashed) aren't talked about, except when the media want to attack the low cost airlines for another reason. That just shows the hypocrisy, as Ryanair etc have been attacked at the same time as being shown as the perfect way to run a business instead of the evil railway.

 

[ashworth]

It is odd how the media focuses on the £1 RyanAir tickets... I actually dislike that business model - arguably the same as Stagecoach Rail take with Megatrain.

Fact was, under Midland Mainline it was relatively straightforward to get a ~£10 single to London from Nottingham. Almost overnight, that stopped and the price rose to around ~£18 and is now closer to £20. Granted, there are now SOME headline £1 Megatrain fares, but on the whole the price has effectively pretty much doubled for me to get to London.

With MML Advance Purchase tickets from Nottingham to London were available for well under £10. If you booked well in advance these were available for trains at fairly peak times at weekends and Saturday return day trips to London could be done for under £20. Although £12 AP single tickets are still readily available midweek at off peak times it is very difficult to get a tickets at weekends for under £20 each way with EMT. If you must travel by that route at weekends it is better to get a Super Off peak return at £52.50 which offers the flexibility of being valid on most weekend trains.

However, I now very rarely travel to London with EMT especially at weekends.
Nottingham to London AP tickets are usually readily available at far cheaper prices to King's Cross via Grantham, especially with the 10% reduction given for booking online on the East Coast Website. It is still easy to get £9.95 tickets from Nottingham to London via Grantham at relatively convenient times especially at weekends. Even with the change of trains at Grantham journey times are still only aroud 2 hours.

 

[MCR247]

I always find cheap tickets to Nottingham via Grantham on the 1630 from Kings Cross - Newcastle/Edinburgh. And it beats the 1630 off St Pancras by a few minutes.