Sheffield Booking Office

[LowLevel]

The reason Derbyshire Wayfarers are only meant to be issued at nominated locations is entirely down to the sleeve (buses carry them, train crew do not). In practice we can issue them on board (IE mobile machines won't refuse to issue them like some tickets) but I generally warn passengers that they may get grief from bus drivers expecting to see the sleeve if indeed they want to use a bus at all. The sleeve is intended to be used to complete a log of journeys made on the ticket which you can then send in to the council to be entered into the draw for further free tickets.

 

[MG11]

Maybe it just depends on which ticket clerk you get?

It shouldn't have to depend which ticket clerk you get. Sheffield falls within the Derbyshire Wayfarer zone, so therefore, provided you are attempting to purchase it after 09:30 Monday-Fridays or at any time Saturday or Sunday, you should be successful. I cannot understand why a TA would refuse to sell a ticket valid on services which that station serves. East Midlands Trains are my favourite TOC BTW, so I have no vendetta against them.

 

[221129]

It shouldn't have to depend which ticket clerk you get. Sheffield falls within the Derbyshire Wayfarer zone, so therefore, provided you are attempting to purchase it after 09:30 Monday-Fridays or at any time Saturday or Sunday, you should be successful. I cannot understand why a TA would refuse to sell a ticket valid on services which that station serves. East Midlands Trains are my favourite TOC BTW, so I have no vendetta against them.

If it wasn't for use on that day then the TO was completely correct.

 

[MG11]

If it wasn't for use on that day then the TO was completely correct.

There OP has not said whether or not they were trying to buy it in advance but the fact that the TO told the OP to go to a TIC suggests that the OP was buying for the day, otherwise, surely the TO would have simply refused to sell a DWF for a future date.

 

[sheff1]

Has anybody contacted Derbyshire CC or EMT to find out exactly why? Or is this a little too obvious and would spoil the endless speculation?

Its neither here or there to me personally as I'm not local just something on web forum I use I suggest someone more local makes an issue of it with the TOC and Council.

Not sure what contacting Derbyshire CC to ask "why" would achieve as they are clear that the Derbyshire Wayfarer should be available for purchase at Sheffield station.

I have contacted EMT a number of times to complain about their staff refusing to sell tickets at all or quoting made up reasons why a ticket is not valid when it is. They reply apologising for the inconvenience; usually refund the money paid "as a goodwill gesture"; and promise to brief staff with the correct procedures. Whether they do brief staff I, of course, have no way of knowing - but, if they do, it seems to make no difference.

 

[AY1975]

I too have bought the Derbyshire Wayfarer at Sheffield, last time about 18 months ago.
I am aware of a restriction which only allows them to be sold on the day of validity (when bought at a Railway TO).

I've bought a Derbyshire Wayfarer at Sheffield many times without any problems, the last time as recently as the Saturday before last.

In the past I've even bought them there on the day before I wished to use them, but when I recently tried asking for one for the next day, I was told that they weren't allowed to sell them in advance. I suspect that this was never officially allowed, but only recently has this rule been strictly adhered to - maybe after the powers-that-be received reports that staff were selling them before the day of travel. I suppose this rule might be to stop people buying them in advance for use on a weekday, then trying to use them in the morning peak when they are not valid on trains. Surely they should still be allowed to sell them in advance for use at weekends when there are no time restrictions, though?

 

[AY1975]

That's fair enough then but that doesn't excuse the Derbyshire Wayfarer not being sold from Sheffield, Sheffield - Chesterfield, Derby, Long Eaton are valid journeys using the Derbyshire Wayfarer.

Yes, and so are Sheffield-Alfreton/Langley Mill/Ilkeston, and Sheffield-New Mills Central (or any intermediate station in the Hope Valley).

 

[yorkie]

...provided you are attempting to purchase it after 09:30 Monday-Fridays or at any time Saturday or Sunday, you should be successful. ...

Why after 0930?

And Off Peak products should be sold at any time.

 

[IanXC]

Why after 0930?

And Off Peak products should be sold at any time.

Because that is what the terms and conditions of the product state!

Tickets can only be purchased where they are valid.

These railway station ticket offices sell Derbyshire Wayfarer tickets on the day of travel:

• Alfreton
• Burton-on-Trent
• Buxton
• Chesterfield
• Derby
• Long Eaton
• New Mills - only open on Mondays to Fridays, until 1pm
• Newtown - only open on Mondays to Fridays, until 1pm
• Sheffield.

https://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/trans...rover_tickets/derbyshire_wayfarer/default.asp

 

[yorkie]

I can't see anything there that would over-ride the usual principle that off peak fares should be sold at anytime.

And not selling them until 0930 would be crazy given that they become valid on trains at 0900, and are valid at anytime on buses, and a passenger may be using such a ticket in conjunction with another ticket or may be starting their journey by bus.

If they are worried about people using them when not valid, then stamp "restrictions advised" or something.

 

[IanXC]

I can't see anything there that would over-ride the usual principle that off peak fares should be sold at anytime.

Apologies, yes. I was more thinking of the 'in advance of the day of travel' point, which rereading I don't think you were even making.

The OP states they were referred to Sheffield TIC which suggests a possibility they were attempting to purchase one for travel on a future date.

 

[Millhouses]

One strange restriction on purchase of the Derbyshire Wayfarer at Sheffield station (but not at the TIC, or on buses going to Derbyshire), is that in order to buy the concession version (available to anyone over 60), you are required to show a valid Senior Railcard - even thought this is not required to use the Wayfarer. On querying this I was told it was the policy of Derbyshire CC - which seems unlikely. Or is it just Sheffield booking office staff being arsey?

 

[Harpers Tate]

^^ That has only recently become true of the Manchester Wayfarer; possibly a crossed wire that has become "I know....."

 

[AY1975]

The reason Derbyshire Wayfarers are only meant to be issued at nominated locations is entirely down to the sleeve (buses carry them, train crew do not). In practice we can issue them on board (IE mobile machines won't refuse to issue them like some tickets) but I generally warn passengers that they may get grief from bus drivers expecting to see the sleeve if indeed they want to use a bus at all. The sleeve is intended to be used to complete a log of journeys made on the ticket which you can then send in to the council to be entered into the draw for further free tickets.

Buses used to carry the sleeves, but they don't anymore. I think only ticket offices at staffed stations in Derbyshire and at Sheffield still have them now. These days if you buy a Wayfarer on a bus, they just give you the ticket on its own. (Maybe that was because Derbyshire CC got a lot of complaints from people who tried to buy one on a bus, but the driver didn't have any sleeves in stock, so they refused to sell one and the passenger had to pay extra for the first leg of their journey - it happened to me once back in about 2000, but at least when I wrote to Derbyshire CC and complained, they sent me a complimentary Wayfarer.)

That means if you buy one on a bus, you can't send it in afterwards to go in the monthly draw to win a free ticket, unless you know the address to send it to. I always keep a note of that address, and then even if I have a Wayfarer that I bought on a bus, I always write my journey details on the back, then stick one of my address labels on it and send it in.

Train conductors are often puzzled if you produce a Wayfarer that was issued on a bus, and then you usually have to tell them that it's a Derbyshire Wayfarer. The same also often happens if you get on a bus with a Wayfarer that you bought on another operator's bus.

 

[Millhouses]

^^ That has only recently become true of the Manchester Wayfarer; possibly a crossed wire that has become "I know....."

I think the difference with the concessionary Manchester Wayfarer (possibly a recent change?) is this it is only available to ENCTS (English National Concessionary Travel Scheme) pass holders (ie anyone above the women's state pension age at the time of qualification) rather than simply over 60, which still applies to the Derbyshire Wayfarer, and of course the Senior Railcard. In my case, this means I am entitled to the concessionary Derbyshire, but only the standard Manchester.

 

[lyndhurst25]

My dad bought a Senior Derbyshire Wayfarer at Sheffield last month and was asked for proof of age. He used his South Yorkshire ENCTS buss pass and this was accepted. He does not have a Senior Railcard. I think that all that is officially required if proof of age, as it is an age related, not railcard-holder, discount.

Previously at Leeds, I have purchased, in advance, normal adult (for me) and Senior (for my dad) Derbyshire Wayfarers. I wasn't asked for any proof of age, which was a good thing as my dad wasn't with me at the time. I'm not sure if this was strictly within the rules for the ticket but it was good customer service. When we used the tickets, a Cross Country guard asked my dad for his Railcard, but he just showed his ENCTS bus pass and it was, after a little thought, accepted without question. Perhaps railway staff are so used to asking people to show their railcards that they just blurt out the phrase when they actually mean something slightly different?

 

[Millhouses]

That's probably true on trains, but the Sheffield station staff were very explicit in requiring a Senior Railcard - I had mine with me, but not my wife's, so I wasn't allowed to buy her a Derbyshire Concessionary

 

[lyndhurst25]

Then I think that Sheffield booking office were being dumb. Proof of age is what they can ask for. You do not have to be Senior Railcard holder to buy or use the Senior Derbyshire Wayfarer. You can buy exactly the same ticket on the bus and then use it on trains. Bus drivers aren't going to be asking to see your Senior Railcard are they? I suppose that train guards could then ask for proof of age but I don't know what they could do if you did not have any on you.

 

[brompton rail]

Then I think that Sheffield booking office were being dumb. Proof of age is what they can ask for. You do not have to be Senior Railcard holder to buy or use the Senior Derbyshire Wayfarer. You can buy exactly the same ticket on the bus and then use it on trains. Bus drivers aren't going to be asking to see your Senior Railcard are they? I suppose that train guards could then ask for proof of age but I don't know what they could do if you did not have any on you.

Copied from Derbyshire CC website:
“Derbyshire Wayfarer ticket prices 2017.

• £12.60 for an adult (plus one child under 16)
• £6.30 for a senior citizen (aged 60 or over), a child under 16 (a dog may travel in place of a child) or a holder of a Gold Card or other English National Concessionary Travel Scheme (ENCTS) pass
• £23 for a group of up to two adults and up to three children (a dog may travel in place of a child).

Once purchased, tickets are not refundable.”

Clearly Derbyshire state that a senior citizen for the purpose of Derbyshire Wayfarer tickets is someone over 60 years of age. ENCTS lower age limit is on a sliding scale dependent on date of birth, and is higher than 60 years

Best source to purchase Derbyshire Wayfarer tickets is ....
From Derbyshire CC website - ring them up too, credit/ debit card required
In person - Derby Bus Station - Arriva Derby sales office, very helpful and pleasant , Peak Rail Shop at Matlock Station. These Derbyshire Wayfarers will be scratch off tickets.

Avoid buying any tickets at Sheffield Midland!

 

[lyndhurst25]

Agreed about Sheffield station. They'll be asking to see your dog licence next!

 

[sheff1]

Then I think that Sheffield booking office were being dumb. .

It is Sheffield booking office making up rules, which seems to be their speciality.

Nowhere else (point of sale or ticket inspection) have I ever been asked to show my Senior Railcard ... no doubt that is because there is no requirement to hold one when purchasing or using a concession Derbyshire Wayfarer .