Sharp practices outside the UK

[The exile]

Okay, I misunderstood the earlier post, I misread it as being about flights from other countries to Dresden and/or Hamburg.

But there will still be some numbers of passengers arriving at Dresden from other countries, via a change of plane at (e.g.) Frankfurt or Munich, who won't necessarily be familiar with German ticketing methods.

As it happens, I do agree that these can be inconsistent and potentially confusing. On my last trip to (I think) Munich, I bought an S-bahn ticket from the airport station TVM, but it wouldn't fit the platform validator. Fortunately a local was there to tell me that that particular type of ticket was sold pre-validated and didn't need to be (in fact couldn't be) stamped.

As a general rule of thumb, if a ticket already has a date and time on it it probably diesnt need validation. If it doesn’t it almost certainly does - but this is less of a useful guide in the era of bar- and QR type codes. Thinking here of Germanic systems….

 

[mad_rich]

I find www.wikivoyage.org pretty good for information on public transport. If its wrong, then you can edit it.

These are the descriptions for the cities you mentioned

Those are surprisingly helpful and comprehensive! Thanks.

I must remember to check Wikivoyage in the future. I've used Wikitravel, but this seems more comprehensive.

 

[bspahh]

Those are surprisingly helpful and comprehensive! Thanks.

I must remember to check Wikivoyage in the future. I've used Wikitravel, but this seems more comprehensive.

No problem.

https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Wikivoyage_and_Wikitravel explains the difference between Wikitravel and Wikivoyage:

Wikitravel was the forerunner of Wikivoyage. After advertising was added to Wikitravel, the articles were copied to Wikivoyage and many editors have added new content and updates to Wikivoyage only. Wikivoyage is non-commercial and hosted by the Wikimedia Foundation, along with Wikipedia and various other sites.

 

[The exile]

Also got moaned at about being in the wrong class but for the better... fast forward a few years Was in Hamburg staying at the Intercity Hotel at Altona (you get/got free local ticket for the duration of your stay). Was going to Harburg. Train was busy so was stood in the vestibule just after Hbf gripper comes round jibber jabbing at me. I'm like no idea what your saying chief. (Was beyond my German), local said I shouldn't be in standard I should be in first class!

So sampled Metronoms first class and a fire works display on the way back, guard even turned the lights off and driver went slow between Hbf and Dammtor so we could enjoy it (probably shouldn't of done that but...).

With pedant hat firmly on, if what you were being told was beyond your German, how do you know you were being moaned at? You were probably just being let know that there was no need for you to be standing in 2nd when your ticket entitles you to be seated in 1st.

 

[Whisky Papa]

I find www.wikivoyage.org pretty good for information on public transport. If its wrong, then you can edit it.

Are you by chance an editor for wikivoyage, @bspahh, or is anybody else who is reading? There is a slight change to the conditions for travel I'd like to see made in the Prague entry, but I am rather reluctant to edit anything 'wiki' I'm afraid.

 

[bspahh]

Are you by chance an editor for wikivoyage, @bspahh, or is anybody else who is reading? There is a slight change to the conditions for travel I'd like to see made in the Prague entry, but I am rather reluctant to edit anything 'wiki' I'm afraid.

I have modified Wikivoyage pages, but I'm not an "Editor". My changes have been for non-controversial things like updated ticket prices. In general, you are meant to be able to back up statements with evidence. You could always add a comment to the Talk page, and people can discuss it.

 

[NCT]

In 2019 Berlin S bahn ticket inspectors didn't recognise my Interrail pass (and my parents') - their reader didn't recognise the bar codes so 'computer says no'. We just paid the fines and got them all back through Interrail.

 

[rvdborgt]

In 2019 Berlin S bahn ticket inspectors didn't recognise my Interrail pass (and my parents') - their reader didn't recognise the bar codes so 'computer says no'. We just paid the fines and got them all back through Interrail.

In 2019, mobile passes weren't a thing yet, so there was nothing to scan...
Any barcodes that may have appeared on the paper passes were not meant for ticket checks.

 

[NCT]

In 2019, mobile passes weren't a thing yet, so there was nothing to scan...
Any barcodes that may have appeared on the paper passes were not meant for ticket checks.

Ahhh, well those inspectors swore by their scanning machines. 'If my machine doesn't recognise it it isn't valid'.

 

[AdamWW]

In 2019, mobile passes weren't a thing yet, so there was nothing to scan...
Any barcodes that may have appeared on the paper passes were not meant for ticket checks.

They had a 3d bar code (on the cover, not the pass itself, if I recall correctly) for getting through ticket barriers in some countries.

As you say they weren't there for checks on trains.

In 2019 Berlin S bahn ticket inspectors didn't recognise my Interrail pass (and my parents') - their reader didn't recognise the bar codes so 'computer says no'. We just paid the fines and got them all back through Interrail.

Good to kow you got your money back. I wonder if Interrail then reclaimed the fines from DB.

 

[Whisky Papa]

I have modified Wikivoyage pages, but I'm not an "Editor". My changes have been for non-controversial things like updated ticket prices. In general, you are meant to be able to back up statements with evidence. You could always add a comment to the Talk page, and people can discuss it.

Thanks for your response, I will have to look further at it, although the current article's advice is a 'right side failure' so no real urgency.

It is only a minor change, but one that might benefit a few visitors; from 1st August, passengers who already have a valid ticket may board suburban buses in Prague (with a few exceptions) via any doorway rather than having to enter via the driver's door and either buy, validate or show a valid ticket.

https://www.dpp.cz/en/company/news/...rding-through-all-doors-on-pid-suburban-lines

Expansion of boarding through all doors on PID suburban lines​

24. 06. 2025

Starting from 1 August 2025, boarding will be possible through all doors on almost a hundred PID suburban bus lines. The change is intended to speed up passenger check-in and follows a successful trial operation. At the same time, surcharges for travelling without a valid travel document are increasing.

The new feature will bring passengers faster and more convenient boarding without the need to stand in line at the front door, which will result in smoother operation and shorter waiting times, especially at busy stops.
If a passenger already has a valid ticket – whether paper one or one in the PID Lítačka mobile application – they can board through any door from 1 August 2025.
It is still possible to buy a ticket from the driver – in cash or by card, but in this case it is necessary to board through the front door.

 

[JKP]

Mmm, based on my Nice experience, who was there to ask about the rules...

Were there any visible transport staff at the Tram stop in the airport? NO
Were there any transport staff at the first Interchange stop (Grand Arenas)? NO
Were there any staff at the closest train station to the airport (Nice St Augustin)? NO
Was it obvious what to do when a blue ticket validator shows no light, no beep and has a nearly impossible to read screen with text in French? NO

Have just returned from Nice. I read up about ticket availability and validation before going. My wife and I were a bit flummoxed though that having bought and loaded one pass between us, we were confronted by an automatic ticket barrier on leaving the tram at Jean Medicine underground stop and I had to pass the card back to my wife to let her out.

There was no problem with the seven day Azure pass as one could not board trains at Nice Ville station without validation through the gateline. The weird thing about Nice Ville was the separation out between TER trains and long distance TGV trains. Though at least there was someone on hand to point out our error!

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

When Supertram opened in Sheffield, it opened with ticket machines and ticket validators at all the stops

As did the Docklands Light Railway. Didn't last...

I think other systems in Spain allow you to use one smartcard for multiple people too, but it's relatively rare elsewhere (and if allowed, may require pressing a button on a machine).

And Belgium, but nowhere else I've been

Other inconsistencies I noticed between German travel systems include whether you can board buses from all doors or only by the front, and whether bus drivers care about your ticket.

And whether they suddenly become interested at 8 or 9pm

Of course that's a valid use of a day ticket.

That feels to me like a single journey ticket, valid for some time but not for a return journey

 

[eoff]

Have just returned from Nice. I read up about ticket availability and validation before going. My wife and I were a bit flummoxed though that having bought and loaded one pass between us, we were confronted by an automatic ticket barrier on leaving the tram at Jean Medicine underground stop and I had to pass the card back to my wife to let her out.

Much that I thought Nice was setup to trap tourists into paying more than is needed (can't buy cheapest tram fare at the airport), this is one good aspect.
I think they expect one traveler with the card to validate it n times, and letting through all the other people before going through themselves at any barriers.
I was there a couple of days before I exited at an underground tram stop.

 

[rvdborgt]

That feels to me like a single journey ticket, valid for some time but not for a return journey

If it's only valid for a single journey, then it's not a day ticket.

 

[stadler]

Much that I thought Nice was setup to trap tourists into paying more than is needed (can't buy cheapest tram fare at the airport), this is one good aspect.
I think they expect one traveler with the card to validate it n times, and letting through all the other people before going through themselves at any barriers.
I was there a couple of days before I exited at an underground tram stop.

That tram to Nice airport is the biggest scam i have seen. This one actually seems like an intentional dishonest practice by the tram company rather than just a usual airport surcharge. It is a disgrace that they get away with it.

The ticket for a tram to or from the airport is EUR10.00. The ticket for a tram to or from any other stop is EUR1.70. It is only a five minute walk from the terminal to the first stop outside of the airport.

But the airport tram stops (T1 and T2) and the first tram stop outside of the airport and within the normal fare zone (Grand Arenas) are both part of the airport free zone. So you can travel for free from the airport to the first stop outside of the airport. This means that nobody actually needs a EUR10.00 airport ticket and the standard EUR1.70 ticket is perfectly valid to the airport. So the expensive airport ticket (almost six times the price of a normal one) is an unnecessary ticket that solely exists to scam tourists out of extra money.

 

[Flying Snail]

That tram to Nice airport is the biggest scam i have seen. This one actually seems like an intentional dishonest practice by the tram company rather than just a usual airport surcharge. It is a disgrace that they get away with it.

The ticket for a tram to or from the airport is EUR10.00. The ticket for a tram to or from any other stop is EUR1.70. It is only a five minute walk from the terminal to the first stop outside of the airport.

But the airport tram stops (T1 and T2) and the first tram stop outside of the airport and within the normal fare zone (Grand Arenas) are both part of the airport free zone. So you can travel for free from the airport to the first stop outside of the airport. This means that nobody actually needs a EUR10.00 airport ticket and the standard EUR1.70 ticket is perfectly valid to the airport. So the expensive airport ticket (almost six times the price of a normal one) is an unnecessary ticket that solely exists to scam tourists out of extra money.

So similar to Edinburgh trams then, except anyone who does their research can easily avoid the charge in Nice whereas in Edinburgh you have to walk 15 mns to the next stop to dodge the airport tax.

 

[eoff]

That tram to Nice airport is the biggest scam i have seen. This one actually seems like an intentional dishonest practice by the tram company rather than just a usual airport surcharge. It is a disgrace that they get away with it.

The ticket for a tram to or from the airport is EUR10.00. The ticket for a tram to or from any other stop is EUR1.70. It is only a five minute walk from the terminal to the first stop outside of the airport.

But the airport tram stops (T1 and T2) and the first tram stop outside of the airport and within the normal fare zone (Grand Arenas) are both part of the airport free zone. So you can travel for free from the airport to the first stop outside of the airport. This means that nobody actually needs a EUR10.00 airport ticket and the standard EUR1.70 ticket is perfectly valid to the airport. So the expensive airport ticket (almost six times the price of a normal one) is an unnecessary ticket that solely exists to scam tourists out of extra money.

And to add to this, the notice at the airport tram stop tells you it is free to travel between terminals, it does not tell you it is free to travel to Grand Arénas.
I previously noted that I did not notice tram staff in a place to advise on tickets, I did notice them in a place to check tickets, notably the stop after Grand Arénas which would be ideal to catch people traveling from the airport.

 

[joncombe]

And to add to this, the notice at the airport tram stop tells you it is free to travel between terminals, it does not tell you it is free to travel to Grand Arénas.
I previously noted that I did not notice tram staff in a place to advise on tickets, I did notice them in a place to check tickets, notably the stop after Grand Arénas which would be ideal to catch people traveling from the airport.

You can also download the app to your phone and buy a ticket on that, to avoid the £10 surcharge. I think there is also a railway station beside Grand Arenas, which is often quicker, depending on when the next trains is to get to Nice centre, but it depends on which part of the centre you want, I guess.

A lot of countries (the UK included) seem to treat people arriving at airports as a big cash cow to be ripped off. For example I can remember at Oslo airport you will be (if you don't know any better) be directed to the very expensive Airport Express trains when you could you a much cheaper and almost as quick NSB/VY train, if you know they exist in the first place.

 

[signed]

A lot of countries (the UK included) seem to treat people arriving at airports as a big cash cow to be ripped off. For example I can remember at Oslo airport you will be (if you don't know any better) be directed to the very expensive Airport Express trains when you could you a much cheaper and almost as quick NSB/VY train, if you know they exist in the first place.

There's a whole thread from last year about that, but that's the same with CAT in Vienna, litterally the same tracks, like 5x the price of the railjet/sbahn

 

[exile]

On recent trips to both Italy and France I noticed how difficult it was to find the validation machines - made more so by the fact nearly every local had a ticket that didn't need validating.

 

[AdamWW]

On recent trips to both Italy and France I noticed how difficult it was to find the validation machines - made more so by the fact nearly every local had a ticket that didn't need validating.

I remember being stuck in Italy once because I couldn't find a machine.

I asked a fellow passenger what to do and they told me just to write the time and date on myself.

Which seemed to work.