Sharp Curves on the Network

[38Cto15E]

Syston North Jct to Syston East jct ?
Not many scheduled passenger services though.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Carstairs has to be up there with the tightest curves anywhere (Carstairs Station Junction to Carstairs East Junction); you can easily see both ends of a 4-car Voyager from either of the "middle" coaches. The line speed is 15mph. And, because the line is single track, Glasgow-bound trains have to cross back onto the Down line as well. It's a rather spectacular sight to behold.

Is it possible the tightest curve used by a "mainline" service, given that both East Coast and CrossCountry have to traverse this fairly regularly each and every day?

Its maybe not a smaller radius than some of the others, but I agree that it is a spectacular junction; for the reasons you mention and that there's a Neutral Section of OHLE in the middle of it, so electric trains have to coast through it!

 

[TGV]

Its maybe not a smaller radius than some of the others, but I agree that it is a spectacular junction; for the reasons you mention and that there's a Neutral Section of OHLE in the middle of it, so electric trains have to coast through it!

It is an unusually awkward junction. Also, the spur off to Edinburgh that EC trains use, is canted the "wrong" way because the WCML curves the other way, so instead of canting into the curve, it's like adverse camber on the road - wheelsets all over the place.

 

[route:oxford]

Its maybe not a smaller radius than some of the others, but I agree that it is a spectacular junction; for the reasons you mention and that there's a Neutral Section of OHLE in the middle of it, so electric trains have to coast through it!

Is this the part that could be readily sorted by the reopening of chord slightly to the south of the junction?

Ideally with a flyover to take the North-bound Edinburgh over the WCML.

Should knock 3-4 minutes off the Edinburgh-Carlisle services and mitigate a lot of pathing difficulties around that area.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Is this the part that could be readily sorted by the reopening of chord slightly to the south of the junction?

Ideally with a flyover to take the North-bound Edinburgh over the WCML.

Should knock 3-4 minutes off the Edinburgh-Carlisle services and mitigate a lot of pathing difficulties around that area.

I understood that me123 was referring to the northern curve (Glasgow-Carstairs-Edinburgh) and I think that's what TGV was reponding to as well.
However, the southern curve between Carstairs East Jn and Carstairs South Jn is dualled, but is comparable and has a similar radius, and the same 15mph linespeed and two Neutral Sections (one on the approach to the curve from the south and one in the curve!) and although the curve is dualled, the South Junction is single.

The northern curve does create more conflicts, though, because East - West traffic crosses everything else: the Eastbound mid-calder line, the bi-di local platform line AND the Up Main before reaching the Down Main.

Yes, there was a much more gentle curve for Carlisle-Edinburgh traffic, which was half a mile south of Carstairs (the avoiding line) and if there was more demand I guess this then this could be considered for re-opening in the future. I doubt the savings in journey time would be enough of a justification to re-open that chord.

 

[delt1c]

Or the Nullarbor Plain in Australia, dead straight for 297 miles! I bet that's dull.

Did it in October, not dull b ut gets a bit repetative as you have a full day of just desert, but surprising what there is to see, there was wagons from a derailment , bogies removed and stacked up but just left there, also saw a steam water tower which still looked operational and many other items of railway furniture. But it is easy to miss things as you are lulled into a semi trance with so much desert. At the end of the straight you actually feel the train taking the 1st curve.

 

[GarethW]

The bend just south of Fareham station is pretty sharp, I'm long used to sounds of screeching at the bottom of my garden but it sometimes surprises first time visitors.

Like the Firsby bend a remnant of railway history as the first line through Fareham was Eastleigh to Gosport which is dead straight, the Coastaway being the later addition with quite noticable bends at both ends.

Permanent 20mph restriction on it.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Morpeth station is another one, not deadly slow, but it has been the scene of quite a few crashes over the years, hence, is it 30-50mph?

The best thing to do with Carstairs is tear the whole junction up and start over again, it is amazingly unnecessarily complex. When approaching from the south, you will see an embankment leave,, this avoided the station area, and was replaced by the tight 15mph curve as mentioned before to this very day. If the old alignment was reopened (it joins again just after Carstairs East Jn), it could shave 2-3 off a journey. I'll find a Google Maps picture...

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?rlz=1...4&q=carstairs&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl

My apologies if that doesn’t show up right, I’m awful with those kind of things!

It is quite obvious where the old alignment was, it the broken row of green along the east of the picture.

My apologies for the last image inserted, that was of Carstairs in Alberta, Canada! Just type in 'Carstairs, Scotland station' into Google Maps, and click on satellite to the top right. Head along the WCML southwards, and it's literally a stone's throw from the junction.

Matt

 

[linesider]

About one mile north of Seaham station there are two sharp bends together going around a farmers field.It looks like he refused the railway permission to cross his land when the line was built! This is on the Sunderland to Middlesbrough coast line.

 

[jopsuk]

Looking at the map, I'd reckon that double bend is to avoid Seaham Hall- that'll be your landowner.

By my estimates (using Google maps) the corner onto the Newmarket line at Cambridge is approximately 200m radius and in the region of 120°. It's an odd one, as I thought most of Romsey post-dated the coming of the railways- indeed, grew because of it- though perhaps the Newmarket line was later.

 

[Wyvern]

For a really historic example, what about Lord Harborough's Curve?

 

[Mojo]

There's an incredibly sharp curve between Avonmouth and St Andrews Road, seen on this satellite image: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&s...3226,-2.698807&spn=0.003072,0.009645&t=h&z=17

 

[DaveNewcastle]

For a really historic example, what about Lord Harborough's Curve?

That's the old curve on the Syston - P'bro line. Long gone, I think.

But I have to agree, its another good story of a (presumably wealthy or otherwise influential) landowner refusing to give up any land to the horrid shiney, noisy, smokey and, worst of all 'modern' railway.
(I'm not remembering this clearly, but wasn't there was some irony? Didn't the diverted route which required the curve actually pass closer to part of the Honorable Lord's property than the straighter route which he resisted?).

 

[EltonRoad]

By my estimates (using Google maps) the corner onto the Newmarket line at Cambridge is approximately 200m radius and in the region of 120°. It's an odd one, as I thought most of Romsey post-dated the coming of the railways- indeed, grew because of it- though perhaps the Newmarket line was later.

I used to live right next to this curve. I've read somewhere that access to the Newmarket line used to be much more direct from Cambridge station, but because this involved crossing all the other lines, and the inevitable delays and conflicts occurred, an alternative had to be found, hence access was relocated some 1 mile north and the curve was put in.

(Seems strange though as you still have to cross all the lines!)

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Syston North Jct to Syston East jct ?
Not many scheduled passenger services though.

Good shout, Gus!

That might be the tightest radius of all the suggestions on this thread so far! It can't be much more than 100mtrs!

 

[The Planner]

Systons got a 10mph limit on it if I recall. The St Andrews curve mentioned earlier in Brum used to be a 5 mph restriction for freight but was raised to 15mph.

 

[richw]

Its maybe not a smaller radius than some of the others, but I agree that it is a spectacular junction; for the reasons you mention and that there's a Neutral Section of OHLE in the middle of it, so electric trains have to coast through it!

is that this one here?
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en...code_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CBoQ8gEwAA

 

[DaveNewcastle]

is that this one here?

Er, no.
Its at Carstairs, in Lanrkshire. Here :- http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=carstairs.+lanarkshire&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=18.860836,53.657227&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Carstairs,+Lanark,+United+Kingdom&ll=55.689669,-3.661151&spn=0.008757,0.0262&z=16

. . . .but its similar! I can see the similarities.

 

[richw]

Er, no.
Its at Carstairs, in Lanrkshire. Here :- http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=carstairs.+lanarkshire&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=18.860836,53.657227&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Carstairs,+Lanark,+United+Kingdom&ll=55.689669,-3.661151&spn=0.008757,0.0262&z=16

. . . .but its similar! I can see the similarities.

i just looked at the carstairs in lanarkshire one that you just put, and copied another link unless i quoted the wrong post!!! the liskeard-looe branch goes on an over 180 degree curve not long after leaving liskeard, sadly not visible reallly on google maps due to all the overhanging trees! runs to the east of guy cotten then sharp curves to the south side of trevanion road, and then passes only couple of hundred metres to the east of liskeard station heading south having left heading north. look for liskeard station on google maps then follow the course of the branch heading north initially

 

[The Decapod]

Perhaps not one of the tightest curves, but a memorable one nonetheless, is the Queen Adelaide Curve, or Ely Avoiding Line, in Cambridgeshire, where the line doubles back on itself - more than 180 degrees on the map.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

How does it compare to the former loop on the 1/2/3 line at South Ferry on the NY Subway? That needed platform extenders to allow people to get off!

Don't know about the NY bit, but there is a picture of the Line 1 curve here:

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...stille+line+1&hl=en&safe=off&gbv=2&tbs=isch:1

Scroll down about ¾ the way down the page then click on the image there; it won't come up full size from the "see full size image" at the top of the page for some reason.

By the way... the stock on that line is non-articulated and yet has fully open walk through, class 378 style, even on that curve...

 

[jonesy3001]

The curve before/after oldham werneth was a sharp one on the oldham loop before closure last year no doubt metrolink will change it.

 

[coupwotcoup]

Although long gone, there used to be line from Romford goods into the Brewery. From pictures I have seen (Ilford - Brentwood by Dave Brennand), it was almost a right/left hand turn. Seriously scary when laden I would have thought.

 

[Wyvern]

That's the old curve on the Syston - P'bro line. Long gone, I think.

But I have to agree, its another good story of a (presumably wealthy or otherwise influential) landowner refusing to give up any land to the horrid shiney, noisy, smokey and, worst of all 'modern' railway.
(I'm not remembering this clearly, but wasn't there was some irony? Didn't the diverted route which required the curve actually pass closer to part of the Honorable Lord's property than the straighter route which he resisted?).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syston_and_Peterborough_Railway

You can still trace the line of the old route and the M&GNR line on Google Earth

 

[DarloRich]

Not on the main network, but Manors curve on the Tyne and Wear Metro empty stock line up to Jesmond must also be pretty sharp (10kmh line speed). I've always wanted to go up this line on one of the few charters, but have never had the chance!

Agree - one of the few bits of track in the north east i have never been along

 

[142094]

Agree - one of the few bits of track in the north east i have never been along

Just hoping that they might use it for something when the blockade gets going in the spring. Could do a St. James - Byker - Manors - Jesmond type move.

 

[route101]

the carstairs curve is great on a mk4 set ! Does slow things down a bit.

 

[TGV]

i just looked at the carstairs in lanarkshire one that you just put, and copied another link unless i quoted the wrong post!!! the liskeard-looe branch goes on an over 180 degree curve not long after leaving liskeard, sadly not visible reallly on google maps due to all the overhanging trees! runs to the east of guy cotten then sharp curves to the south side of trevanion road, and then passes only couple of hundred metres to the east of liskeard station heading south having left heading north. look for liskeard station on google maps then follow the course of the branch heading north initially

I think you were referring to my post about the curve in Brum? It is very similar to Carstairs in terms of radius.

 

[ph1985]

the one just south of tottenham hale is pretty darn tight - http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=tottenham+hale&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

 

[jopsuk]

Aye- both it and the one it links to south of Seven Sisters are (by rough map measure) about 120m radius. Not sure there's any normal services use it?