Severe delays east coast

[strange6]

Question: why can't the trains run by the flames? A grass fire isn't going to weaken steel poles on the OHLE - so whats the big deal?

I would imagine the big deal is the potential risk of setting the train on fire as it goes by or the train fanning the fire as it shoots past at speed.

 

[4SRKT]

I would imagine the big deal is the potential risk of setting the train on fire as it goes by or the train fanning the fire as it shoots past at speed.

The second of these certainly sounds like a very serious risk.

 

[YorkshireRider]

Maybe the emergency services would have requested the power be turned off before dealing with the fires?

 

[strange6]

Maybe the emergency services would have requested the power be turned off before dealing with the fires?

And that too! Very good point - You don't want to be spraying water next to a live cable do you? lol

 

[Bittern]

There is a massive difference. Class 90s and rail grinders are essential to running the railway. LE kettles on trunk routes are not.

Please explain how Class 90 is "essential"? There's little stopping operators from deciding to use a 66 instead of a 90 on a particular day.

 

[4SRKT]

<sigh> the work they are doing is essential, or at least revenue earning. Otherwise, it wouldn't be done. If what you say is true, and 66s are both better than 90s for a particular type of work and available in sufficient numbers, then operators would use them. The railway is a business.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Maybe the emergency services would have requested the power be turned off before dealing with the fires?

The emergency services (excluding the police - they seem to make it up as they go along) will not go on the line unless the power is off.


---
- Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Bittern]

at least revenue earning.

Guess what? So are Steam railtours.

Yes, the railway is a business, and that business has done something that earns them money, which is give track access for steam railtours for a fee.

 

[4SRKT]

Guess what? So are Steam railtours.

Railtours being the key word. Not Light Engines then?

 

[Bittern]

So have you conveniently forgotten about how you were going on about how main line steam be banned then?

 

[4SRKT]

So have you conveniently forgotten about how you were going on about how main line steam be banned then?

Steam on *trunk lines* and ECS/LE on all lines you mean?

Anyway, why are you still out of bed? According to the Birthdays Today thing on the forum homepage you were one year old yesterday. Happy birthday BTW, but I'm baffled as to why a one year old cares so much about kettles.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

So how are railtours meant to run if you can't run ECS' or LE movements. Perhaps all steam railtours should run from Southall depot and arrive back in Southall at the end of the day?

 

[theblackwatch]

Railtours being the key word. Not Light Engines then?

The light engine movement would be a part of an overall revenue earnining tri p - WCRC are not a successful company by running non-revenue earning trains for the fun of it!

What interests me is that, if these two steam locos caused so many fires, why were they not stopped much earlier by Network Rail? I've seen reports of fires around Doncaster, yet it seems they were allowed to continue all the way to Newark.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I feel sorry for the bloke on the loco who may have caused the problem. I bet he feels bad when he realises all the delays etc he may of caused. Perhaps he should write out 100 times, "I must be more careful in future." Hope ECML is ok now.

 

[Minilad]

I think whoever sanctioned two steam engines running LE under their own power down the ECML on a Friday afternoon needs to have a bit of a rethink

 

[DarloRich]

The southern kettle is still at Newark - i have just passed it on my way north - it didnt look alive!

 

[boing_uk]

Seemingly on the surface it does seem rather draconian to suspend all trains for what is essentially a smouldering fire, not an inferno. There seemed to be no risk of fire spreading to dwellings, structures and seemingly no threat to the actual rail infrastructure.

One thing is certain though is that there is unlikely to be another fire there for a few years, as all the potential fuel will now be used.

It begs the question, how could the risk of lineside fires be reduced? Stopping steam operations isnt the answer, because it does not remove the fuel source and there are always other potential sources for ignition.

So then should NR move to a policy of controlled burns on its land? Perhaps, but this would need to be coupled to a robust strategy of earthworks and land management in general, as an exposed embankment could/would be liable to increased erosion in certain areas.

Are there other ways of doing it? Yes - manual cutting for one. But again the fuel source is left on site. Plus this may not be practical for many other reasons.

I dont see any reason, other than for when trains may actually be in danger, for lineside fires to stop trains as more often than not firefighting can be undertaken off-track. Moreover, when a lineside fire IS under way, I dont think they should be put out, but allowed to burn under control.

 

[HST Power]

EC site says there are 10 minute delays due to engineering work at York. Is this part of the clear up?

 

[DarloRich]

EC site says there are 10 minute delays due to engineering work at York. Is this part of the clear up?

no it is to do with the holgate upgrade

i have been told the fault was with the steam loco ash pan

 

[Crossover]

Just heard there are more problems at Wakefield Westgate due to points failure.
Train held in station that has caused 1D24 to be stood outside the station waiting for a platform

Not a good weekend for the ECML!

 

[amcluesent]

Not a good weekend for the ECML!

IMHO there's an urgent need for an indepedent review of the operation of ECML. It's obviously that systemic failure in control and operations is the root cause of these total collapses in response to every hiccup.

 

[Bittern]

Steam on *trunk lines* and ECS/LE on all lines you mean?

No, I mean this:

Hopefully the main line steam in Hampshire won't be like the main line steam in Yorkshire that has totally ballsed up the ECML this afternoon.

We may have been 'totally spoilt with main line steam' recently, but now it's time for main line steam to totally spoil today for hundreds of thousands of people, all so a bunch of old men can pretend the real world doesn't exist.

It's time this nonsense was banned from the main line, unless the operators are prepared to accept that if they cause miles of lineside fires and thousands and thousands of individual delay hours, then they must compensate all affected passengers, TOCs and NR in full. Even then, is it really worth the aggravation?

Your words.

 

[MCR247]

The WCML doesn't fare much better though

 

[Bittern]

I feel sorry for the bloke on the loco who may have caused the problem. I bet he feels bad when he realises all the delays etc he may of caused. Perhaps he should write out 100 times, "I must be more careful in future." Hope ECML is ok now.

ECML should be fine. Had to go to the doctor about some minor burns but was told to rub Sudocrem on them and that all would be fine.

 

[harz99]

IMHO there's an urgent need for an indepedent review of the operation of ECML. It's obviously that systemic failure in control and operations is the root cause of these total collapses in response to every hiccup.

Hmm; there will be reviews both by Network Rail and East Coast as is always the case after such major problems.

As to systemic failures.........; if you've ever been on the ground when such incidents happen, and remember we are talking incidents in the several that occurred with fires, failures etc, then no, it doesn't matter what advance plans you have there are occasions when matters build to the point where it is almost impossible to deal with.

I can't speak for EC now, but I still have bad memories from a day when on duty at PBO with ICEC and we had wires down across Holme Fen, followed by wires down between PBO and GRA! We had contingency plans in place with local coach operators, BUT, this all happened at school time in the afternoon so no spare coaches to be had for at least two hours.

On top of that we had Central Trains running normally and disgorging pax regularly who wanted to go north/south and then later WAGN were coaching up from Huntingdon but wouldn't allow THEIR coaches to carry on to GRA to connect with trains that were being turned back.

It was utter chaos for many hours, and well into the evening before we cleared everyone with some having to stay in the Great Northern Hotel overnight, which by the way had already opened up its function room to provide somewhere for pax to go whilst they waited.

Whilst all this was going on, we were also planning with the coach operators to provide coaches the following morning to allow our London commuters to get to work.

 

[Aictos]

Hmm; there will be reviews both by Network Rail and East Coast as is always the case after such major problems.

As to systemic failures.........; if you've ever been on the ground when such incidents happen, and remember we are talking incidents in the several that occurred with fires, failures etc, then no, it doesn't matter what advance plans you have there are occasions when matters build to the point where it is almost impossible to deal with.

I can't speak for EC now, but I still have bad memories from a day when on duty at PBO with ICEC and we had wires down across Holme Fen, followed by wires down between PBO and GRA! We had contingency plans in place with local coach operators, BUT, this all happened at school time in the afternoon so no spare coaches to be had for at least two hours.

On top of that we had Central Trains running normally and disgorging pax regularly who wanted to go north/south and then later WAGN were coaching up from Huntingdon but wouldn't allow THEIR coaches to carry on to GRA to connect with trains that were being turned back.

It was utter chaos for many hours, and well into the evening before we cleared everyone with some having to stay in the Great Northern Hotel overnight, which by the way had already opened up its function room to provide somewhere for pax to go whilst they waited.

Whilst all this was going on, we were also planning with the coach operators to provide coaches the following morning to allow our London commuters to get to work.

Well written, thank you.

 

[amcluesent]

Today it's signalling problems at Grantham! Dear, oh dear!

 

[HST Power]

Indeed there are!

A signalling problem is causing disruption near Grantham.
Because of this, there are delays of up to 20 minutes between Newark North Gate and Grantham. These delays are expected to last until approximately 13:30.

Still, at time of writing, they should be fixed up in about 28 minutes.

 

[wbbminerals]

Perhaps lineside fires wouldn't happen if the lineside was clear! The reason for these fires is that the lineside is so overgrown it must exponentially increase the chances of fires whereas if it was clear it's a lot less likely.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Perhaps lineside fires wouldn't happen if the lineside was clear! The reason for these fires is that the lineside is so overgrown it must exponentially increase the chances of fires whereas if it was clear it's a lot less likely.

Yes I have noticed in recent years how overgrown the sides of the lines seem to be these days, even on very busy routes. However when travelling on SWT last Saturday to Exeter, I think I saw that in certain locations West of Basingstoke there was evidence of trees etc being pruned and the embankments cleared.