*Settled* Summons For Traveling Without Tick & False Info

[ForTheLoveOf]

Person1, I think that some of the people who are responding to your request for assistance are having a little conversation among themselves which you should NOT take as advice. In particular, I strongly advise you NOT to follow 'ForTheLoveOf's suggestion of prosecuting the Railway Company under Byelaw 24 (3) without having very robust evidence to support a conviction and the assurance from very good legal advice that it is a prosecution which is likely to succeed, and is at a price which you are content to pay if you fail. Please be very, very cautious if you feel inclined to follow the course of action which 'ForTheLoveOf' has hinted at.

It is sometimes said on this forum that a legal claim following a railway ticketing incident merits specialist legal expertise - with which I disagree, but a citizen bringing a private prosecution against a Company which is likely to succeed certainly does require a high standard of professional competence. I speak from a position of some experience, having seen very many such claims fail through lack of a competant assessment of the evidence, the probabilities and the risks.

Please don't add yourself to that list of failures.

----- EDIT ----- An afterthought -----

If you were thinking of bringing an action against the Company, then I should point out this distinction to you :-
In the Civil Courts, we sometimes see a claim and a counter-claim being heard in the one hearing on Appeal. Both are considered as a whole.
In the Criminal Courts, each offence stands on it own merits, and one Prosecution against an accused will not normally influence another Prosecution brought by the accused (though there are arguments to suspend one until the other is resolved).
I do acknowledge that it is a common response of some people, when accused of something, to ignore the accusation, and instead, to try to find fault with their accuser, but that behaviour rarely leads to a beneficial outcome. It usually compounds their problem.

At the risk of repeating myself, please be very careful before taking any encouragement or assurance from the advice from 'ForTheLoveOf'.

I am not sure where you got the idea that I was advocating prosecuting the company. As we all know, it is simply not practical for individuals of typical means to instigate a private prosecution, both because they do not have the infrastructure, systems and knowledge that regular private prosecutors like TV Licensing/Capita and the TOCs have, but also because of the costs and risk/low chance of success.

My comment was merely intended to convey that, technically speaking, the ticket inspectors could be committing an offence if they refused to show ID including the items required by the Byelaws - but only if they were exclusively exercising Byelaw powers, not RoRA or anything else. However, this does not mean that refusing to show a ticket is not an offence or that it is somehow negated, it merely means that the TOC/inspector could also be committing an offence.

And I would prefer it if you were upfront in what you said, e.g.

please be very careful before taking any encouragement or assurance from the advice from 'ForTheLoveOf'.

by saying that you would prefer I keep my gob shut on this forum (which is what I have understood to be the case). If that is your attitude, then I am not sure there is much point me continuing to post here and I may as well be banned or have my account deleted.

 

[najaB]

by saying that you would prefer I keep my gob shut on this forum (which is what I have understood to be the case)

I don't usually speak for other members but I'm not sure that's what @DaveNewcastle is saying - just that when people are facing prosecution opinion is of little use as compared to fact-based listings.

 

[Person1]

I have sent an email to Arriva Northern prosecutions team.

I have apologised, assured them it is not something that will happen again, stressed the fact it is my first transport incident and that I have a clear criminal record. I have also explained the implications of gaining a criminal record and how this may impact upon my current employment and future career. Finally I have asked if there is an option to settle this out of court.

I will post back an update when I receive a response.

 

[waynemorrell]

Interestingly, most WMT (ex LM) staff still don't have an up-to-date ID card, most still say London Midland. As LM is no longer their employer I would reject such identification as not showing their employer.

Not just ID, according to Southern’s ticket booking engine certain tickets are “Valid on London Midland services only”. - see attached.

Guess it all takes time to update.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I am not sure where you got the idea that I was advocating prosecuting the company. . . . .

from your remark "they would be committing an offence . . . . . Let's guess who would be prosecuted" which is a remark which appears likely to raise the option of a prosecution in Person1's mind. It did that in my mind. And it is perfectly possible for Person1 to do so.

And I would prefer it if you were upfront in what you said, e.g.
. . .
by saying that you would prefer I keep my gob shut on this forum (which is what I have understood to be the case).

What in fact I am doing here is for the sole benefit of Person1, and no other purpose; In so doing I am attempting to comply with the forum's rules :

For the benefit of the OP we will not permit off topic discussion, any such posts are likely to be deleted. For instance a debate about whether current rail industry practice could be improved, or about the complex nature of the railway ticketing system is not helpful to the OP.

I considered that the suggestion of prosecuting the Inspector is off-topic.

Person1, I am sorry that your request for assistance on here is being used for this discussion among forum members.

 

[waynemorrell]

[polite tone] Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.

Sorry... couldn’t resist

I’ll get me coat.

 

[Person1]

Up date as promised.....
I sent an email to Arriva North on Monday and I am happy to confirm that an out of court settlement has been agreed and paid today. No further action will be taken. Lesson learnt!

 

[najaB]

Up date as promised.....
I sent an email to Arriva North on Monday and I am happy to confirm that an out of court settlement has been agreed and paid today. No further action will be taken. Lesson learnt!

Happy to hear it. Thanks for letting us know.

 

[gray1404]

How much did they ask for?