Settle-Carlisle line & low traffic levels

[infobleep]

Is a 30 to 40 minute car journey, Park up and board train quicker than getting a direct train from the C&S line? Or is that irrelevant given the small numbers that might do the journey.

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[43074]

Is a 30 to 40 minute car journey, Park up and board train quicker than getting a direct train from the S&C line? Or is that irrelevant given the small numbers that might do the journey.

Oxenholme to Manchester Piccadilly is 1 hr 15 minutes as of the May 2014 timetable, whilst Garsdale to Manchester Victoria would take approximately 2 hours 20 minutes directly (Garsdale is accessible for people from Hawes, Sedbergh etc. so a fair comparison), so a potential time saving of up to 30 minutes, when you allow a 40 minute drive from Hawes to Oxenholme. The 2 hr 20 timing of the latter is derived from the 1 hr 30 timing of Garsdale to Blackburn of the Dales Rail service, and the 50 minutes taken for most Blackburn to Manchester Victoria services.

Having said that, you're probably right infobleep it is probably irrelevant given the small numbers that might do the journey.

 

[Bevan Price]

I understand that. The question I was wondering was are there less stations on the L&C stretch and if so why? Given they are similar population perhaps they do have an equal number of stations. I don't actually know.

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Because most of the intermediate stations on the L&C have been closed. Hest Bank, Bolton Le Sands, Milnthorpe, Tebay & Shap lasted until the 1960s. Several of the others closed long before then.

 

[infobleep]

Because most of the intermediate stations on the L&C have been closed. Hest Bank, Bolton Le Sands, Milnthorpe, Tebay & Shap lasted until the 1960s. Several of the others closed long before then.

Perhaps some of them should be reopened. Especially as HS2 is likely to be happening.

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[RichmondCommu]

Perhaps some of them should be reopened. Especially as HS2 is likely to be happening.

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I concur but that is a long way off! Nothing is likely to happen whilst Pendolinos are still crashing through at 125 mph!

 

[Moonshot]

The simplest solution would be to shut the whole thing down and use the resource elsewhere where it would be of greater benefit

 

[55018ballymoss]

I see what you mean,and thanks for pointing this out. I had actually put 8th May into RTT which produces zero night services at any point,but as you say from the following week onwards there are lots of paths showing. All a bit of a mystery!

No mystery. Freight was diverted due to engineering possessions overnight...
Was the same for most of the week.
It happens every few months that there are a few weekday nights with engineering possessions and the freight diverted by alternate routes.

 

[RichmondCommu]

The simplest solution would be to shut the whole thing down and use the resource elsewhere where it would be of greater benefit

Planet earth to Moonshot. Please study the subject matter before posting.

 

[infobleep]

I concur but that is a long way off! Nothing is likely to happen whilst Pendolinos are still crashing through at 125 mph!

How fast did the trains go when the stations were open? Clearly not as fast.

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[infobleep]

How fast did the trains go when the stations were open? Clearly not as fast.

I'm a believer of if one is going to build high speed lines then stations previously closed to make other lines high speed should be reopened to benefit local people. People who might have a station still were it not for the fact they lived along an intercity route.

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[RichmondCommu]

How fast did the trains go when the stations were open? Clearly not as fast.

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Well given that they all closed in the 1960's nothing would have been going quicker than 90 mph, even with diesel haulage! Class 50's ran on the route before it was electrified but that was only from 1968 onwards.

 

[chorleyjeff]

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But most of the stations served small places like Brock or were too far from towns like Garstang. They were viable when they had goods yards before road transport obliterated small consignments by rail and burning coal ceased to be the only way to heat your house.

 

[infobleep]

But most of the stations served small places like Brock or were too far from towns like Garstang. They were viable when they had goods yards before road transport obliterated small consignments by rail and burning coal ceased to be the only way to heat your house.

Is that not the case with some of the stations on the S&C?

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[edwin_m]

Is that not the case with some of the stations on the S&C?

Probably so, but since it is a secondary route with no high speed services then it is possible to stop the trains at wayside stations without getting in the way of anything else. And as a large proportion of the passengers are there for the ride, or are going on walking trips from said stations, there are probably few on the train who would wish to reduce the station stops to get a faster journey.

 

[infobleep]

Well I wish South West Trains would run fast services from Guildford to Portsmouth before 8.39am Monday to Friday but they don't. Just because some people want fast West coast journeys, doesn't mean it has to happen like that.

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[edwin_m]

The difference is that there are already several hundred people each hour using fast trains on the West Coast. If fast services were provided on the S&C they would carry far fewer people, most of whom would be transferring either from the West Coast or the existing stopping services and therefore not bringing in any extra revenue.

 

[yorksrob]

One relatively straight forward improvement that could be made to the Settle -
Carlisle would be to do away with the Sunday service and have the same service pattern throughout the week.

It strikes me that if there were a line on which Sunday traffic had as great potential as every other day, it would be this one.

 

[Darren R]

One relatively straight forward improvement that could be made to the Settle -
Carlisle would be to do away with the Sunday service and have the same service pattern throughout the week.

It strikes me that if there were a line on which Sunday traffic had as great potential as every other day, it would be this one.

You make an interesting point there. Looking at the new timetable that started today, there are 4 Sunday trains between Leeds and Carlisle (both ways) at irregular intervals, compared to 7 on weekdays. The only difference between the summer and winter timetables is the Dalesrail service from Blackpool North.

I do find this a little surprising - I would have expected an extra train or two on summer Sundays compared to the winter service. What are the loadings like over the S&C on Sundays? On a glorious sunny day like today I would expect the trains to be heaving - in fact so much so that I wouldn't plan a trip. I've had to stand from Carlisle to Skipton before - and that was midweek before the school holidays started: I dread to think how busy the Dalesrail train was this morning!

 

[yorksrob]

You make an interesting point there. Looking at the new timetable that started today, there are 4 Sunday trains between Leeds and Carlisle (both ways) at irregular intervals, compared to 7 on weekdays. The only difference between the summer and winter timetables is the Dalesrail service from Blackpool North.

I do find this a little surprising - I would have expected an extra train or two on summer Sundays compared to the winter service. What are the loadings like over the S&C on Sundays? On a glorious sunny day like today I would expect the trains to be heaving - in fact so much so that I wouldn't plan a trip. I've had to stand from Carlisle to Skipton before - and that was midweek before the school holidays started: I dread to think how busy the Dalesrail train was this morning!

Unfortunately, I couldn't tell you as due to the timetable, I don't tend to go up there on a Sunday ! It wouldn't surprise me if there were some supressed demand though.

 

[Carlisle]

But most of the stations served small places like Brock or were too far from towns like Garstang. They were viable when they had goods yards before road transport obliterated small consignments by rail and burning coal ceased to be the only way to heat your house.

I suppose the S&C was lucky In being an exception because even though it's small stations were closed in around 1970 they continued to be served by the monthly Dalesrail ramblers service most of the time until their 1986 re opening whereas on other lines like the west coast the platforms may well have simply been demolished fairly soon after closure

 

[Roose]

...even Carlisle isn't that big a place (and there aren't many people living in the southern Borders to tap in to). Maybe some 153 shuttles from Settle to Skipton (to connect to regular 333s to Leeds) could be justified, but north of Skipton there aren't huge numbers.

Carlisle isn't that big, indeed.

It has, however, a population greater than thirty times that of Settle. Where would the people come from to justify a Settle to Skipton shuttle?

 

[kylemore]

Yesterday I had an enjoyable afternoon sail over to Arran - whats that got to do with the Settle and Carlisle?
I've never seen so many big Bulkers anchored on the Firth, I counted six, all heavy laden and awaiting their turn to unload at Hunterston Bulk Terminal. The combined tonnage of coal in these ships must be round about Half a Million Tons!
So I imagine a sizable proportion of this will eventually be trundling over the S&C!

 

[gerryuk]

There is one train a week on Sunday morning from Sheffield to Carlisle direct.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y71083/2014/05/25/advanced
Is there a particular reason for this? What’s the chances that this could be a regular daily service? Is this service well used?