Settle & Carlisle for WCML freight

[MML]

If Arriva wanted to find a use for their HSTs or Class 180s, they could operate daily Thames Clyde express and Thames Forth express trains via S&C.
Neither would compare to the fast services available from Euston or Kings Cross, but I'm sure they would be welcome alternatives for those who are less time sensitive and seek competitive fares or an improved onboard catering experience. But the routes would primarily offer a Scottish route from the Midlands and Yorkshire, together with intermediate travel opportunities.
Calling at Leicester, Melton Mowbray, Derby, Nottingham, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Leeds and Carlisle.

 

[D6130]

If Arriva wanted to find a use for their HSTs or Class 180s, they could operate daily Thames Clyde express and Thames Forth express trains via S&C.
Neither would compare to the fast services available from Euston or Kings Cross, but I'm sure they would be welcome alternatives for those who are less time sensitive and seek competitive fares or an improved onboard catering experience. But the routes would primarily offer a Scottish route from the Midlands and Yorkshire, together with intermediate travel opportunities.
Calling at Leicester, Melton Mowbray, Derby, Nottingham, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Leeds and Carlisle.

Don't wish to appear rude, but what has that got to do with the potential diversion of WCML freight?

 

[InkyScrolls]

If Arriva wanted to find a use for their HSTs or Class 180s, they could operate daily Thames Clyde express and Thames Forth express trains via S&C.
Neither would compare to the fast services available from Euston or Kings Cross, but I'm sure they would be welcome alternatives for those who are less time sensitive and seek competitive fares or an improved onboard catering experience. But the routes would primarily offer a Scottish route from the Midlands and Yorkshire, together with intermediate travel opportunities.
Calling at Leicester, Melton Mowbray, Derby, Nottingham, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Leeds and Carlisle.

I suggest you post this in this thread.

 

[yorksrob]

Have I woken up in the 80s when this sort of discussion was going on?

If there was demand for traffic from Leeds and surrounding areas to go to Carlisle and Glasgow then upgrading the line maybe viable, but I imagine such traffic uses the ECML well enough anyway. Would it be any cheaper raising the line speed via adding a Sprinter/MU differential to the base 60mph value than raising the whole base value?

There is actually a lot of through traffic on the route going from Yorkshire to Carlisle and beyond. However, it doesn't seem to be put off by the current service speed.

 

[furnessvale]

If its a standard class 6 path that replicates every hour then it would, just because it isn't used every hour doesn't mean it won't make a difference.

I wonder if there is any research in the public domain showing suppressed demand for freight traffic on the WCML and ECML which could be met by paths on the S&C, even if that traffic was forced into conventional wagons, or unconventional containers?

eg, domestic tank container traffic does not HAVE to use ISO framed tanks but can utilise bottom lift tanks. A major food manufacturer is also experimenting with containers fitted with lowering roofs, which was a feature of trailer by rail experiments some years ago.

 

[D6130]

Aga

There is actually a lot of through traffic on the route going from Yorkshire to Carlisle and beyond. However, it doesn't seem to be put off by the current service speed.

Again, off-topic for this thread, which is about what freight traffic could - or could not - be diverted from the WCML.

 

[The Planner]

I wonder if there is any research in the public domain showing suppressed demand for freight traffic on the WCML and ECML which could be met by paths on the S&C, even if that traffic was forced into conventional wagons, or unconventional containers?

eg, domestic tank container traffic does not HAVE to use ISO framed tanks but can utilise bottom lift tanks. A major food manufacturer is also experimenting with containers fitted with lowering roofs, which was a feature of trailer by rail experiments some years ago.

Don't know. Would depend if the wagons already existed, or if the capital cost of procuring them pays itself back with the paths and the traffic.

 

[Mag_seven]

Just a gentle reminder that this thread is for speculative discussion surrounding Settle & Carlisle for WCML freight. If anyone wants to discuss anything else they are welcome to start a new thread.

 

[voyagerdude220]

In terms of the route, freight from the south towards the NW & Scotland could either branch off at Farrington Junction towards Clitheroe and Hellifield, or run to Stockport and then via Denton to reach Manchester Victoria and thus towards Hellifield via Darwen.

There won't be any spare paths available for additional services to run via Darwen, because the current Northern timetable has two trains in each direction every hour and you also have single line sections between Blackburn and Darwen and also between Darwen and Bromley Cross.

 

[Bevan Price]

Sectional Appendix shows the S&C as W7 throughout and RA8, I think. So no containers, but weight wouldn't be a problem.

Yes - when WCML is closed north of Preston, the Daventry / Scotland container trains have to take a long diversion via ECML.