Settle and Carlisle line today

[nanstallon]

I had a disappointing day, trying to ride on the S&C. The 09.18 got as far as Skipton, then we were put on buses. One went straight to Carlisle - the A65 was very tedious. Coming back, I hoped to ride the 18.24 from Carlisle, but it was cancelled. The railways are so unreliable. There is no resilience, the snowflake railway!

 

[D1537]

I had a disappointing day, trying to ride on the S&C. The 09.18 got as far as Skipton, then we were put on buses. One went straight to Carlisle - the A65 was very tedious. Coming back, I hoped to ride the 18.24 from Carlisle, but it was cancelled. The railways are so unreliable. There is no resilience, the snowflake railway!

What would you like the railway to do when the signalling is put out of action by a lightning strike? Run the trains anyway and hope they don't crash into each other?

 

[JackT481]

I traveled on the 05:29 Shipley - Carlisle , which I believe was the only northbound service to complete the entire journey, do we know the exact details of what sort of problem the lightning caused to the signalling?

 

[apinnard]

I traveled on the 05:29 Shipley - Carlisle , which I believe was the only northbound service to complete the entire journey, do we know the exact details of what sort of problem the lightning caused to the signalling?

It went “BANG.”

 

[nanstallon]

My gripe is that the railways are so vulnerable. Systems can go 'bang', but for the S&C (or any other line) to then be out of action for the rest of the day (or maybe longer?) is why it seems to me to have become a snowflake railway.

 

[sh24]

This stuff used to happen in the 80's and 90's too.

 

[nanstallon]

In my experience, the attitude then was more 'the show must go on'. Perhaps there is just too much 'clever' electronics these days.

 

[SuspectUsual]

In my experience, the attitude then was more 'the show must go on'. Perhaps there is just too much 'clever' electronics these days.

Probably. But you could say the same for any other modern national business. More and more single points of failure exist now than in the past

 

[Killingworth]

Curious. I was at Edale yesterday afternoon. All trains for all 3 operators were subject to long delays at Sheffield due to a lightning strike.

Where and when was such a devastating lighting strike, or strikes?

My train towards Sheffield was only 45 minutes late due to trespassers on the line but there were multiple cancellations from mid afternoon onwards. The 15.14 Northern service for Piccadilly left Sheffield at 16.24 and gave up at Bamford at 16.47 due to a problem with the doors. The 16.14 got away at 16.40 but was held at Hathersage until the 15 14 could be sent forward out of service.

One lightning strike may have coincided with multiple other compounding issues across the railway network. An absolute nightmare of varied situations requiring multiple resolutions.

 

[apinnard]

In my experience, the attitude then was more 'the show must go on'. Perhaps there is just too much 'clever' electronics these days.

“During the war” most signalling was mechanical. A lightning strike was always far less likely to take out a whole area due to the mechanical nature of the old equipment.

Not so for electronic kit.

 

[Ballyheigue]

To be fair on the railways, the multiple storms around Leeds lasted almost 6 hours with a huge number of strikes witnessed by myself from 02.30am, as I was travelling to work, a torrential storm came along around 8am meaning I had to shelter as the rain was coming down so fast.

 

[apinnard]

To be fair on the railways, the multiple storms around Leeds lasted almost 6 hours with a huge number of strikes witnessed by myself from 02.30am, as I was travelling to work, a torrential storm came along around 8am meaning I had to shelter as the rain was coming down so fast.

A town near me went from nothing to flooded through the main drag in half an hour:

Cambridgeshire and Northamptonshire lightning caught on camera

Video shows water flowing through a town centre and dramatic lightning after a day of intense heat.

www.bbc.co.uk

Video showed water flowing down a street as storms hit the East of England after a second day of intense heat.

The footage was taken in High Street, Thrapston, Northamptonshire on Tuesday evening.

Power was lost at 119 properties in the town, and flooding was also reported at Raunds and by the A6 in Burton Latimer.

Other clips showed dramatic lightning in the skies over Huntingdon, Harlton and Haslingfield in Cambridgeshire, as well as in Whittlesey, near Peterborough.

Link is to a BBC News video showing the flooded main road in Thrapston, Northamptonshire.

Anyway, back on topic….

 

[The exile]

“During the war” most signalling was mechanical. A lightning strike was always far less likely to take out a whole area due to the mechanical nature of the old equipment.

Not so for electronic kit.

I remember a short RM article by (I think) Adrian Vaughan describing a lightning strike on Calthrop Crossing box - all communications lost for the day there as well, ISTR. As it was still mechanical signalling, it was presumably possible to talk trains through the section. We could go back to one signaller every 2 -3 miles, but would you be willing to pay for it?

 

[70014IronDuke]

I noticed the cancellations yesterday, and also that some (perhaps just one return) emergency services Carlisle to Garsdale were also cancelled. So must have been serious issues, I presume.

I did wonder, however - and here I'm perhaps being terribly naive re the modern railway - but seeing as the Bentham line was seemingly unaffected, couldn't one or two return workings to Lancaster have been arranged? This would mean not only improved service levels to Gargrave, Hellifield etc, but also Settle would have had some extra connectivity via Giggleswick, and passengers for Carlisle could have changed at Lancaster. I mean, the crews and stock were presumably otherwise hanging around, and surely they know the road as well?

 

[settlelad]

From hearsay, it was a lightning strike around Ribblehead. Also Northern Rail were suggesting using the Bentham line to Lancaster (admittedly infrequent services) but that would have got customers through to Carlisle (and also Settle passengers via Giggleswick). Also, for memory, I think some services from the south (Leeds) were turning at Ribblehead. I think the lightning strike was around 8am. The two early morning services seem to run without a problem https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...28/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt

 

[Rail Ranger]

I remember a short RM article by (I think) Adrian Vaughan describing a lightning strike on Calthrop Crossing box - all communications lost for the day there as well, ISTR. As it was still mechanical signalling, it was presumably possible to talk trains through the section. We could go back to one signaller every 2 -3 miles, but would you be willing to pay for it?

Probably more likely to be by David E Canning, who worked at Colthrop Crossing box.

 

[The exile]

Probably more likely to be by David E Canning, who worked at Colthrop Crossing box.

You’re quite right - it was a long time ago!

 

[30907]

(Nanstallon) had a disappointing day, trying to ride on the S&C. The 09.18 got as far as Skipton, then we were put on buses. ...The railways are so unreliable. There is no resilience, the snowflake railway! ...In my experience, the attitude then was more 'the show must go on'. Perhaps there is just too much 'clever' electronics these days.

Not much electronics on the S&C though, even at Blea Moor

I did wonder, however - and here I'm perhaps being terribly naive re the modern railway - but seeing as the Bentham line was seemingly unaffected, couldn't one or two return workings to Lancaster have been arranged? This would mean not only improved service levels to Gargrave, Hellifield etc, but also Settle would have had some extra connectivity via Giggleswick, and passengers for Carlisle could have changed at Lancaster. I mean, the crews and stock were presumably otherwise hanging around, and surely they know the road as well?

The Bentham line has a 2-hourly service for much of the day, which is adequate for the displaced through passengers. The block section from Settle Jn to Carnforth requires 40min which is a challenge too.

BTW I wonder if the KWVR picked up extra traffic yesterday as a result - it was relatively busy. Ill wind etc

 

[70014IronDuke]

The Bentham line has a 2-hourly service for much of the day,

Ah - the caveat here is 'for much of the day', i suggest.

(It's a bit late, but I think this issue is worth looking at still.)

Let's look at the afternoon trains. There are departures from Leeds for Lancaster/Morecambe at

12.18, 14.18 (you got your two hours there ok) and, er ... 17.26.

So that's 3hrs and a wee bit. And that's a slot when a fair few will be travelling (relatively), as shown by the two departures for Carlisle - at 15.18 and 16.48 (and both usually four-car trains, I believe).

which is adequate for the displaced through passengers.

Depends on what one means by 'adequate'. I don't suppose anyone on the two Lancaster trains that afternoon died of heat stroke, but failing to plug a gap between 14.18 and 17.26 for passengers to Gargrave and beyond when you possibly have stock and crews standing idle because the line is blocked at Ribblehead doesn't sound adequate to me.

The block section from Settle Jn to Carnforth requires 40min which is a challenge too.

You can't fit two return workings in between (roughly, adding an hour on after dep Leeds) 15.18 and 18.26 from Settle Jcn to Carnforth? Some challenge, that!

Don't get me wrong. I think the people at Northern at all levels (despite the many complaints about other services) make a great effort to provide a decent-ish service on both the S&C and Bentham (and Tyne Valley) routes, given the financial and stock constraints, and passenger demands. This includes both strategic and day-to-day operations. (I think both routes probably have the best service levels ever with the current timetables.)

It's also possible that the crews stuck at the Leeds end of things were Carlisle-based, I suppose, and don't sign the Bentham route. Or there was one person only in charge of sorting out the passenger mess, and he or she concentrated on getting RRBs. I don't know, but it would be nice to have an explanation as to why no extras could not be conjured up for the Bentham line in the downtime.

BTW I wonder if the KWVR picked up extra traffic yesterday as a result - it was relatively busy. Ill wind etc

Remains unanswered.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

“During the war” most signalling was mechanical. A lightning strike was always far less likely to take out a whole area due to the mechanical nature of the old equipment.
Not so for electronic kit.

I'm not sure where the lightning strikes were, but the S&C is pretty much still an old-fashioned mechanical railway, albeit with fewer signal boxes (so longer signal sections) than before.
It's harder these days to set up hand signalling, especially in remote areas like most of the S&C, and the traffic is light, so priority would be low.