Settle And Carlisle Formations

[RichmondCommu]

Hi everyone,

I have a picture taken sometime during the summer of 1979 which shows a Nottingham to Glasgow service crossing Arten Gill viaduct. In the middle of the train there is both a restaurant buffet car and a miniature buffet and I'm curious to know why. Richmond Commu and I were only infrequent visitors to the line and so I have no way of telling whether this was normal for this service or not.

I look forward to your responses!

Kind regards,

Essex Ram

 

[jimm]

Certainly unusual - the Nottingham-Glasgow rakes usually had either a Mk1 RMB or an RBR in the formation but I can't recall ever seeing one with both types.

No idea why you saw what you did, but perhaps the RMB was being used in place of a faulty TSO or SK to keep up the seating capacity.

I recall that on occasion an RMB would only be provided between Leeds and Carlisle, being attached to the front of the train by the loco that was taking it forward at either end of that leg of the journey.

 

[RichmondCommu]

No idea why you saw what you did, but perhaps the RMB was being used in place of a faulty TSO or SK to keep up the seating capacity.

.

That makes a lot sense although I'm curious to know why the two vehicles are next to each other in the formation. I would have expected that a replacement carriage would have just been added to the end of the formation.

 

[muddythefish]

Travelled on the line shortly before the Nottingham- Glasgows finished (circa 1982?) and the restaurant car was attached to the rear of the train IIRC.

 

[30907]

Assuming this was the middle of the three class 1 trains, might the combination of RBR (or similar) and RMB have been a hangover from its days as a through train from St Pancras?
My memories of the the MML are both hazy and minimal, but back then a pair of catering vehicles would not have been unusual on other services out of London.

 

[jimm]

When the Thames Clyde was still running up to 1975-76, it had a single Mk1 catering coach, normally a Cravens-built KB/RKB kitchen-buffet, and I think this was the case from when Mk1s were first used in the 1950s up until the service's demise.

 

[hexagon789]

Hi everyone,

I have a picture taken sometime during the summer of 1979 which shows a Nottingham to Glasgow service crossing Arten Gill viaduct. In the middle of the train there is both a restaurant buffet car and a miniature buffet and I'm curious to know why. Richmond Commu and I were only infrequent visitors to the line and so I have no way of telling whether this was normal for this service or not.

I look forward to your responses!

Kind regards,

Essex Ram

Having looked at the 1979 LMR Carriage working book the booked formations for the 3 Glasgow-Nottingham trains were (all Mk1 stock):

BSK-SK-CK-2 SK-BSK

BSK-TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-RMB-TSO-TSO-BSK

NDV-2 TSO-CK-RBK-CK-TSO-BSK


So none of the services were booked for 2 catering vehicles, possibly a transfer of stock or something?

 

[AY1975]

Having looked at the 1979 LMR Carriage working book the booked formations for the 3 Glasgow-Nottingham trains were (all Mk1 stock):

BSK-SK-CK-2 SK-BSK

BSK-TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-RMB-TSO-TSO-BSK

NDV-2 TSO-CK-RBK-CK-TSO-BSK


So none of the services were booked for 2 catering vehicles, possibly a transfer of stock or something?

The second of these formations, BSK-TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-RMB-TSO-TSO-BSK, doesn't appear to have any first class. The first one, BSK-SK-CK-2 SK-BSK, has no buffet or restaurant car and sounds more typical of the Carlisle-Leeds trains after the Nottingham-Glasgows were diverted away from the S&C in 1982.

 

[AY1975]

Travelled on the line shortly before the Nottingham- Glasgows finished (circa 1982?) and the restaurant car was attached to the rear of the train IIRC.

Yes, they were diverted away from the S&C with the May 1982 timetable change.

 

[30907]

The second of these formations, BSK-TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-RMB-TSO-TSO-BSK, doesn't appear to have any first class. The first one, BSK-SK-CK-2 SK-BSK, has no buffet or restaurant car and sounds more typical of the Carlisle-Leeds trains after the Nottingham-Glasgows were diverted away from the S&C in 1982.

I think it's basically right, apart from the missing First.
#1 would be the relatively new morning train south and evening north (1605 Leeds rings a bell), and I don't think had any catering. I only remember it as Carlisle-Leeds.
#3 is the long-standing Leeds-Glasgow-Leeds, last haunt of the Gresley Buffet.

 

[hexagon789]

The second of these formations, BSK-TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-RMB-TSO-TSO-BSK, doesn't appear to have any first class. The first one, BSK-SK-CK-2 SK-BSK, has no buffet or restaurant car and sounds more typical of the Carlisle-Leeds trains after the Nottingham-Glasgows were diverted away from the S&C in 1982.

Sorry, the second formation should have a Corridor First in it: BSK-TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-RMB-FK-TSO-TSO-BSK

Typo on my part, apologies

 

[hexagon789]

Sorry, the second formation should have a Corridor First in it: BSK-TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-RMB-FK-TSO-TSO-BSK

Typo on my part, apologies

The others are correct, I've doubled checked everything to make sure of that

 

[AJP62]

I think it's basically right, apart from the missing First.
#1 would be the relatively new morning train south and evening north (1605 Leeds rings a bell), and I don't think had any catering. I only remember it as Carlisle-Leeds.
#3 is the long-standing Leeds-Glasgow-Leeds, last haunt of the Gresley Buffet.

That's right - no catering on this service. I remember it was Carlisle - Nottingham and return though I think it was more like 6pm off Leeds.

Being Carlisle based then it was a great boon as it finally allowed day return trips direct to Leeds and beyond after years of the first southbound S&C train passing the last northbound train not far south of Appleby!