Services you would like to see in the future

[The Ham]

It seems to me, having read through these wish lists, that the OP quoted above might have hoped for something other than personal ones.

One would hope that two goals could be sought.

1. Longer journeys without changing (people making long journeys will have luggage), especially avoiding an intermediate local journey (tube, bus or tram).

2. Quicker long distance journeys to compete with road and air.

One other way to compete with other travel methods is to have an increase in frequency (which means that the maximum change time between services reduces).

 

[70014IronDuke]

The hourly Trent Valley service will, in my view, get even better when it's sent directly from Stafford to Crewe instead of meandering via Stoke. Crewe will then offer good onward connections throughout the North West, Scotland, and North Wales.

Plus, it will also be freed of its restriction to 4-car trains solely for the purpose of stopping at Stone, Kidsgrove and Alsager.

It would be by far the best service the TV starions will have ever had.

I had no idea they were planning this. It's good for connections onward from Crewe, of course, but it also means that the feed into Stone and Alsager and Stoke is lost.
But it's already the best the TV stations have ever had. This was a line crying out for exactly this kind of service, and neither BR nor the later lot could get it sorted out.

IMO, this is one of the best developments on UK railways since privatisation.

Oh, and i'd forgotten Rugely ... a totally remaindered station until this new LM service came along.

 

[The Planner]

I just wonder what times could be achieved by an class 80x from Bristol to Manchester, stopping only at Parkway and Birmingham (later with CC stock).

Not as much of a saving as you might think, assume around 3 minutes a stop, so knock out Cheltenham, Wolves, Stafford, Stoke and Stockport and its only 15 odd minutes. If CC is classic compatible then still makes no difference as there will be no connection to HS2.

 

[Ianno87]

I had no idea they were planning this. It's good for connections onward from Crewe, of course, but it also means that the feed into Stone and Alsager and Stoke is lost.
But it's already the best the TV stations have ever had. This was a line crying out for exactly this kind of service, and neither BR nor the later lot could get it sorted out.

IMO, this is one of the best developments on UK railways since privatisation.

Oh, and i'd forgotten Rugely ... a totally remaindered station until this new LM service came along.

See the West Midlands franchise ITT thread. Stone, Kidsgrove and Alsager would instead see an hourly Crewe-Stoke-Brum service instead - arguable more useful for day to day commuters.

 

[WestCoast]

Can that also stop at Golborne, Coppull and Standish?.

Yes, absolutely. I'd also prefer if it was served with class 350/1s.

 

[70014IronDuke]

See the West Midlands franchise ITT thread. Stone, Kidsgrove and Alsager would instead see an hourly Crewe-Stoke-Brum service instead - arguable more useful for day to day commuters.

Sure. Thanks. (I don't have time to read every thread.) So long as these stations are not losing out, fine, especially if you think it will be more useful for the locals.

 

[nw1]

Assuming being fanciful is allowed and we don't have to stick with the vagaries of the existing TOC setup...

A "fast" XC service between Reading and Birmingham on a regular basis. We could keep the existing via-Coventry service as is, but speed up the "Warwick line" one to go fast from Oxford to Birmingham to speed up XC trains on this route. This could then, alternate-hours, extend up the WCML to Glasgow or Edinburgh, again limited stop e.g. Wolverhampton-Crewe-Preston-Lancaster-Carlisle-Edinburgh, on the other hour it would go to Newcastle as now and the WCML service would originate at Bristol (see the other XC thread).

To make up for the lost Reading to Banbury/Leamington Spa service, a Paddington to Oxford terminator is extended to Banbury, Leamington Spa, Coventry - and then Nuneaton and Leicester - providing a missing link.

More variable destinations for XC services, perhaps restoring Brighton and Liverpool to the XC network, even if just one or two trains a day at the busiest times. This could be done e.g. originating one or two Reading services at Brighton, or diverting one or two Manchester services from Reading or Bristol to Liverpool in the path of Birmingham-Liverpool services (with anBirmingham-Manchester "local" to maintain the regular half-hourly service... again this is ignoring the fact that XC and LM are separate companies!)

Introduction of an S-Bahn style service between Eastleigh and Southampton, with two trains an hour at Swaythling and St Denys. Perhaps this could be done by retiming the existing Salisbury service and stopping the existing Waterloo semi fast additionally at these stations.

Making all slow trains stop at Beaulieu Road Mondays-Saturdays, giving an hourly service as on Sundays.

Within the constraints of the existing rail network, and assuming re-opening lines is not allowed.. I think that's it for the moment!

 

[HowardGWR]

One other way to compete with other travel methods is to have an increase in frequency (which means that the maximum change time between services reduces).

Agreed, although a few very fast non-stop services between our major cities would not perhaps be justified other than aligning with business demand.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not as much of a saving as you might think, assume around 3 minutes a stop, so knock out Cheltenham, Wolves, Stafford, Stoke and Stockport and its only 15 odd minutes. If CC is classic compatible then still makes no difference as there will be no connection to HS2.

Worth considering for a few business-orientated services, Although indeed I did envisage joining with HS2, which I think is a major strategic error not to plan for.

It seems to me that there is a demand for such services as a higher tier than the sort of XC provision we have today. Ergo HS1 and 2 and 3.

 

[fairysdad]

I've always thought Waterloo-Barnstaple would be a perfect fit. Suppose there is the issue of longer distance trains having a knock-on impact with local traffic but from what I see the SWTs service to the West is very reliable & hourly nowadays.

Yep, is quite a reliable service, and the Barny branch is pretty reliable as well. It's also a traditional Southern route! Extend the ex-Waterloos up there every couple of hours, job's a good'un! Limited stops from Exeter at Crediton, Yeoford, Copplestone, Eggesford, and Umberleigh.

Perhaps go a bit more pie-in-the-sky and have it staffed by GWR staff who sign the route and traction anyway, so the SWT crew still get their breaks. Only problem that I can see would be limited turnaround time at Barnstaple to get the train cleaned and prepped for its jaunt back to the City. Suppose you could always use the sidings at Barnstaple and hold it there for a bit, or even (shock!) reopen the second platform to handle more trains up that end of the line.

I may be getting somewhat carried away here...

 

[3141]

As an example, Southampton to Cardiff, Birmingham to Norwich with very few stops, thus providing an inter-city service the equivalent in quality (comfort and speed) of that enjoyed by Londoners and those places that happen to lie on a London-orientated route (e.g. Swindon or Peterborough).

It seems to me that this raises similar problems to Cross Country, that although it's an Inter City service the number of stops slows the overall journey down. For example, if I travel from Overton to Manchester it takes me four hours whether I go via London or on XC, which has eleven intermediate stops.

According to Trainline, Birmingham to Norwich will take three hours and three quarters via Peterborough, where the change requires a wait of almost half an hour, or four hours via London. The biggest time improvement would be if there was a through train. Not stopping at Coleshill, Melton Mowbray and Oakham would save only a few more minutes.

I guess the biggest time saving on Southampton to Cardiff would be obtained by missing out Bristol, but that's the biggest intermediate stop.

So really, in order to speed up services like these, there would need to be an additional train (or two) every hour serving only the largest places on the way. This could be fitted in on some sections of these routes but maybe not on all.

 

[Ianno87]

Yep, is quite a reliable service, and the Barny branch is pretty reliable as well. It's also a traditional Southern route! Extend the ex-Waterloos up there every couple of hours, job's a good'un! Limited stops from Exeter at Crediton, Yeoford, Copplestone, Eggesford, and Umberleigh.

Perhaps go a bit more pie-in-the-sky and have it staffed by GWR staff who sign the route and traction anyway, so the SWT crew still get their breaks. Only problem that I can see would be limited turnaround time at Barnstaple to get the train cleaned and prepped for its jaunt back to the City. Suppose you could always use the sidings at Barnstaple and hold it there for a bit, or even (shock!) reopen the second platform to handle more trains up that end of the line.

I may be getting somewhat carried away here...

The issue would be getting the crossings in the passing loops on the single line via Axminster to coordinate with the crossings in the passing loops on the Barnstaple line. I think you'd need an elongated stand at Exeter St David's to get it all to work.

 

[Parallel]

The issue would be getting the crossings in the passing loops on the single line via Axminster to coordinate with the crossings in the passing loops on the Barnstaple line. I think you'd need an elongated stand at Exeter St David's to get it all to work.

I do think some extra services to/from a London station would help improve traffic on the line further, though traffic is improving year-on-year anyway. It's a shame that the Barnstaple end of the line has been severed as it was also possible to reach Ilfracombe, Bideford and direct to Taunton via. South Molton previously, by rail.

The issue with how the current line is set up for an hourly service, most trains have a very short turn around time at Barnstaple (usually around 5 mins or less) to get them back to the passing loop at Eggesford. I think the line needs infrastructure improvements but with an hourly set up, trains from London would either have not enough turn around time, or would have to sit at some sidings (if there are any functional sidings left) for over an hour. The timetable changes after 15:27 from Exeter St. David's to allow for the following trains to call at all/more stations.

If anything does ever come of the line in the future, I think they should have a semi-fast service calling at Crediton, Yeoford (x), Copplestone (x), Morchard Road (x), Eggesford and Umberleigh (x) and Barnstaple alternating with a request stop stopping service, but it should be run like the Avocet line to Exmouth, in that a semi-fast service to Barnstaple would become a stopping service on the way back towards Exeter (and vice versa), as it would even out the services overall. If there were a couple of daily services to/from London, IMO they should run fast, calling only at Crediton, Eggesford (for operational reasons), possibly Umberleigh and Barnstaple.

We could even go the whole hog and run the hourly Axminster to Barnstaple service, with a portion splitting at either Exeter or Credition (if possible) to Okehampton a couple of times a day, at peak time only. Would it be feasible or possible to re-open Barnstaple to Ilfracombe, calling at Braunton en route? Currently, 6 double decker buses an hour run to Braunton, with 3 continuing to Ilfracombe. I could see a market for a rail service.

Okay, so I might have got a bit carried away

 

[Muzer]

I'd like on XC train per hour to extend beyond Reading to Guildford. I'd greatly appreciate it. Also if it were extended beyond Guildford that might be popular... :P

But on a serious not the occasionally mooted Gatwick-Guildford-Reading-Oxford service would be great. Although thinking about it if we were to rebuild the Guildford to Horsham line and route it that way that would be even better. Also I've often though that extending at least one Portsmouth direct train and hour to Southampton would be good.

That makes me think — how hard would it be to come up with a "super outer" London orbital railway?

How about — Gatwick, Guildford, Reading, Oxford, Bicester, Bletchley, Bedford, Cambridge, Ipswich, Chelmsford, then from there onto Romford with a newly-built East-facing curve, down the branch-line to Upminster, then down onto a re-opened Tilbury Riverside branch, and onto a train ferry (re-use the ones that currently run between Hamburg and Copenhagen when the tunnel opens) to Gravesend where the train would exit the ferry onto a sharp gradient (with the help of a banking engine!) onto an elevated railway, travelling down to Strood, through Maidstone, and finally to Paddock Wood and Tonbridge and onto the mainline back down to Redhill!


(For those with a broken sarcasm detector — I'm not being exactly serious here...)

 

[Morgsie]

I am not sure about pathing and other infrastructure but following the electrification of Manchester to Preston via Bolton then extend all the Euston to Piccadilly services to Scotland

 

[dk1]

Yep, is quite a reliable service, and the Barny branch is pretty reliable as well. It's also a traditional Southern route! Extend the ex-Waterloos up there every couple of hours, job's a good'un! Limited stops from Exeter at Crediton, Yeoford, Copplestone, Eggesford, and Umberleigh.

Perhaps go a bit more pie-in-the-sky and have it staffed by GWR staff who sign the route and traction anyway, so the SWT crew still get their breaks. Only problem that I can see would be limited turnaround time at Barnstaple to get the train cleaned and prepped for its jaunt back to the City. Suppose you could always use the sidings at Barnstaple and hold it there for a bit, or even (shock!) reopen the second platform to handle more trains up that end of the line.

I may be getting somewhat carried away here...

After I'd posted it did strike me that trains get prepped at St.Davids & watering in particular maybe an issue along with time at Barnstaple.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I am not sure about pathing and other infrastructure but following the electrification of Manchester to Preston via Bolton then extend all the Euston to Piccadilly services to Scotland

Every 20mins?

 

[Ianno87]

I am not sure about pathing and other infrastructure but following the electrification of Manchester to Preston via Bolton then extend all the Euston to Piccadilly services to Scotland

I am not sure about pathing and other infrastructure but following the electrification of Manchester to Preston via Bolton then extend all the Euston to Piccadilly services to Scotland

You'd create a whole heap of timetable issues, and the only new direct links that would be created would be Bolton-London and Stockport/Macclesfield/Stoke-Lakes/Scotland, which are both already well served by changing at Manchester Piccadilly. You'd also need considerably more Pendolinos

A few tactical "peak" start-and-end-of-service Euston-Manchester extensions to Preston/Blackpool/Lancaster via Bolton might not go amiss though.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

SWT take over Southampton Central-Brighton and if paths existed, extended west towards Poole, maybe even Weymouth as a stopper

 

[swt_passenger]

SWT take over Southampton Central-Brighton and if paths existed, extended west towards Poole, maybe even Weymouth as a stopper

Why would you need to change the TOC at all though? The Wessex route study already suggests running the service west of Southampton anyway. Unless the end to end route became ridiculously misbalanced and out of area for Southern, their running say Brighton to Bournemouth would be no different operationally to SWT running it. Then you have to find rolling stock. It may be that the fleet with capacity to run such an extension is Southern's, using maybe a couple of additional 377s for the extra bit.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Why would you need to change the TOC at all though? The Wessex route study already suggests running the service west of Southampton anyway. Unless the end to end route became ridiculously misbalanced and out of area for Southern, their running say Brighton to Bournemouth would be no different operationally to SWT running it. Then you have to find rolling stock. It may be that the fleet with capacity to run such an extension is Southern's, using maybe a couple of additional 377s for the extra bit.

Southern/GTR have got enough problems on their plate atm with industrial disputes and lack of staff

 

[CheekyBandit]

A service from Ashford to Charing Cross going non-stop to Tonbridge.

What about bringing back non-stop Ashford to Waterloo East then Charing Cross?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

How about extending one Euston to Manchester service per hour to Liverpool via Chat Moss? That way, Liverpool gains a second service without depriving Manchester. It'd also add a fair bit of capacity between the two cities.

 

[The Planner]

It would end up as just a means of getting along the Chat Moss, the journey time would be prohibitive for a direct journey to Liverpool from London.

 

[yorksrob]

What about bringing back non-stop Ashford to Waterloo East then Charing Cross?

When did that cease ? I don't think I ever caught one that went straight through Tonbridge.

Another that might be quite useful would be the fast Ashford - London calling at Bearstead and Maidstone East. I gather that Maidstone's a bit out on a limb with regard to HS1.

 

[matt_world2004]

Crossrail to high wycombe using the new north mainline

 

[dk1]

How about extending one Euston to Manchester service per hour to Liverpool via Chat Moss? That way, Liverpool gains a second service without depriving Manchester. It'd also add a fair bit of capacity between the two cities.

& the following service would get to Merseyside first

 

[anti-pacer]

How about Leeds-Goole-Hull hourly stoppers?

 

[Starmill]

A third train per hour from Manchester to Sheffield and also to Birmingham. Both of these are even presently spaced at 20/40 minute intervals. A second fast train to Chester is also important, but on its way.

 

[anti-pacer]

A third train per hour from Manchester to Sheffield and also to Birmingham. Both of these are even presently spaced at 20/40 minute intervals. A second fast train to Chester is also important, but on its way.

Would the Manchester-Sheffield idea not be scuppered by the Hope Valley stopper?

 

[CheekyBandit]

When did that cease ? I don't think I ever caught one that went straight through Tonbridge.

Another that might be quite useful would be the fast Ashford - London calling at Bearstead and Maidstone East. I gather that Maidstone's a bit out on a limb with regard to HS1.

Don't know - last used the route around 1988 (to my brother's farm in Martin Mill) IIRC services left Charing Cross on the hour - taking an hour to reach Ashford.

 

[trentside]

From an entirely selfish point of view, I'd like to see later services as well as useable Sunday services over the GNGE - at the very least between Lincoln and Sleaford.

I'd also love to see a direct Doncaster to Skegness service on summer Saturdays via Lincoln to take pressure off Grantham for those coming from the North when trains are already full and standing from Nottingham. Theoretically it could also plug the gaps at Heckington and Wainfleet where the HST can't call.