Service changes Dec 2011

[shinkansen1966]

Southern are also planning 10 car services in the peak on the Sydenham Metro line. The platforms are currently being extended from 8-10.

Ah, that explains the platform lengthening work you can see when you take the Overground from north London down to Crystal Palace.

BTW,

From Dec 2011, will we see faster journey times from St Pancras to Sheffield/Nottingham ? I'm awaiting for these 125mph Midland Mainline upgrades to kick in.

 

[swt_passenger]

From Dec 2011, will we see faster journey times from St Pancras to Sheffield/Nottingham ? I'm awaiting for these 125mph Midland Mainline upgrades to kick in.

Early works Dec 2011
Main works Dec 2012
Late works Dec 2013

So unlikely to be much change this December...

 

[Minstral25]

Yeah, but as with anything during rush hour, it has it's busy peak moments. Also an extra four carriages between London/Clapham/East Croydon will always help where ever their destination.

These extra 4 coaches leave 2 minutes after the Redhill train in the peak so they will have plenty of fresh air Can't see them swapping them in the timetables!


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Remember that before the complete Thameslink Programme starts in 2018 you will be seeing new trains running around under Southern and Southeastern. Redhill is one of the stations that will be seeing these new units approx 2016.

Yipee just another 5 years to wait!!

 

[cle]

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned FCC Thameslink with the introduction of 12 car trains (tho limited for now) and retimed services between London and Bedford & Brighton.



Remember that before the complete Thameslink Programme starts in 2018 you will be seeing new trains running around under Southern and Southeastern. Redhill is one of the stations that will be seeing these new units approx 2016.

Are these new times released yet?

Another change will be the additional entrance/exit at West Hampstead, which will be a big help.

 

[jon0844]

I think they're renting in 3 trains from Southern, so that presumbly allows them to take 3 8-car services up to 12-car, which isn't much. The real 12-car services presumably won't begin until the new trains arrive after 2015.

Otherwise, they'll presumably have to drop some other services to extend the 8-car services (given they're already running a number of peak services as 4-car, given the shortage of suitable stock).

 

[Class377/5]

Are these new times released yet?

Another change will be the additional entrance/exit at West Hampstead, which will be a big help.

New timing of the trains haven't been released yet.

The new station building at West Hampstead is going to be open very soon and before December as they will be working on the old entrance.

I think they're renting in 3 trains from Southern, so that presumbly allows them to take 3 8-car services up to 12-car, which isn't much. The real 12-car services presumably won't begin until the new trains arrive after 2015.

Otherwise, they'll presumably have to drop some other services to extend the 8-car services (given they're already running a number of peak services as 4-car, given the shortage of suitable stock).

FCC is borrowing 3x 377/2 which are going to be kept together all week. Can't speak more than than that now but don't expect to see them around outside peak.

There is going to be four peak 12 car workings but currently I can't give details. There is a plan to increase that number by a lot but again can't speak details other than to say it won't affect the length of other services.

As for the new trains, if any of you get Roger Ford's mini update ahead of the new Modern Railways there's a section in there giving away some new information that wasn't public. The new 12 car NXEMU will have 10 in service come May 2015. Note he states all class will be in service by end of 2016. That includes the GN and ones Southern and Southeastern will start running in service.

 

[Minstral25]

I think they're renting in 3 trains from Southern, so that presumbly allows them to take 3 8-car services up to 12-car, which isn't much. The real 12-car services presumably won't begin until the new trains arrive after 2015.

Otherwise, they'll presumably have to drop some other services to extend the 8-car services (given they're already running a number of peak services as 4-car, given the shortage of suitable stock).

The start of 12 coach services in Dec 2011 is a political move, so they can say they are running 12 coach services as they promised although the vast majority of trains will be 4 or 8 coach trains. It will be no more than 2 or 3 diagrams.

Hopefully when the platforms at Blackfriars are available they will move quickly to put the Wimbledon loop trains there with pure 3rd rail stock to enable more longer trains to be put in place through the core using dual voltage stock
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As for the new trains, if any of you get Roger Ford's mini update ahead of the new Modern Railways there's a section in there giving away some new information that wasn't public. The new 12 car NXEMU will have 10 in service come May 2015. Note he states all class will be in service by end of 2016. That includes the GN and ones Southern and Southeastern will start running in service.

I assume you really mean FCC or new Thameslink operator will be running over GN, Southern and Southeastern lines. It will be great if 10 12 car units are running in May 2015 but all the class in May 2016 is a truly impressive build program for 1,200 carriages but then again they were due in service by 2012 originally (as announced when the 377/5's started delivery in 2009)

 

[cle]

I didn't think they might change the Sutton loop stock, but I guess they can. It could then ostensibly go over to Southern really.

Is the FCC timetable changing in Dec, or just the timings of the 12-car services are yet to be released?

I'm assuming that off peak they will do Victoria - Brighton runs?

 

[Class377/5]

The start of 12 coach services in Dec 2011 is a political move, so they can say they are running 12 coach services as they promised although the vast majority of trains will be 4 or 8 coach trains. It will be no more than 2 or 3 diagrams.

Hopefully when the platforms at Blackfriars are available they will move quickly to put the Wimbledon loop trains there with pure 3rd rail stock to enable more longer trains to be put in place through the core using dual voltage stock

I assume you really mean FCC or new Thameslink operator will be running over GN, Southern and Southeastern lines. It will be great if 10 12 car units are running in May 2015 but all the class in May 2016 is a truly impressive build program for 1,200 carriages but then again they were due in service by 2012 originally (as announced when the 377/5's started delivery in 2009)

Can't say how many 12 cars will run is is more than you stated. But not by much.

The Sutton services aren't due to be switched over for a few years yet. There isn't the need until London Bridge is finished but it's likely to be before 2018.

Sorry, I do mean who ever will be the new Thameslink franchisee, use FCC by habit. Just remember that originally 10 12 car NXEMU's were supposed to be in service in 2012 not the whole fleet. The whole fleet was due to 'trickle' into service by 2015. Note sure the figures given by Roger are correct but that's public information. The delivery plan is tight but it remains to be seen if the plan I've seen is retained once the contracts are signed.

Actually I did mean Southern and Southeastern units. Plan always was for the future routes to receive their units ahead of the completion of the TLP meaning some of these new trains will be running into Victoria under their services rather than a Thameslink route.

I didn't think they might change the Sutton loop stock, but I guess they can. It could then ostensibly go over to Southern really.

Is the FCC timetable changing in Dec, or just the timings of the 12-car services are yet to be released?

I'm assuming that off peak they will do Victoria - Brighton runs?

The loop stock has to change other wise it won't be able to run north of Elephant & Castle due to the automatic signalling.

Timings of the 12 cars aren't public yet but soon it'll be public I'm sure.

I can't say what they are doing off peak yet.

 

[swt_passenger]

The loop stock has to change other wise it won't be able to run north of Elephant & Castle due to the automatic signalling.

That depends on exactly where the signalling boundary is. If it is feasible to separate trains heading for the new Blackfriars bays south of Elephant and Castle they don't need ATO on all four tracks on that route. They won't provide it if there is no need.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is the FCC timetable changing in Dec, or just the timings of the 12-car services are yet to be released?

The timetable for Dec 12th is available in the National Rail journey planner.

 

[Class377/5]

That depends on exactly where the signalling boundary is. If it is feasible to separate trains heading for the new Blackfriars bays south of Elephant and Castle they don't need ATO on all four tracks on that route. They won't provide it if there is no need.

The timetable for Dec 12th is available in the National Rail journey planner.

I'm not 100% sure if the bays will be ATO as you can't go from London Bridge to the bays but the boundary is Elephant & Castle or London Bridge in the south.

Well currently not all the trains are confirmed but can confirm these trains will be 12 cars

0658 Bedford - Brighton via London Bridge
0730 Bedford - Brighton via London Bridge
0748 Bedford - Brighton via London Bridge*

1604 Brighton - Bedford via Crystal Palace*
1630 Brighton - Bedford via Crystal Palace
1702 Brighton - Bedford via London Bridge

*these are the 377/2 times.

As for the National Rail check, I don't put any faith in that. States one of the FCC service will depart from platform 4 southbound. This platform is a northbound only and it doesn't have any OHLE so it's clearly wrong.Plus no train length info is given.

 

[cjohnson]

Just had this from Southern about their timetable changes from December:


Longer Trains
On the Sydenham route, we will be running longer peak time trains, with the 06.32, 07.02, 08.02 and 08.32 Norwood Junction to London Bridge and 16.36, 17.05, 17.36, 18.06 and 18.36 London Bridge to West Croydon services being lengthened from 8 to 10 cars.

Following platform lengthening and power supply improvements, we will also be running longer trains on the East Grinstead line. The 06.49, 07.19 and 07.49 East Grinstead to London Bridge and the 05.58, 07.07, 07.37 and 09.07 East Grinstead to Victoria services will be lengthened from 8 to 10/12 cars. The 17.15, 17.44 and 18.16 London Bridge to East Grinstead services and the 16.23, 17.53, 18.23 and 18.53 Victoria to East Grinstead services will also be lengthened from 8 to 10/12 cars.

The Redhill route also sees two longer trains. The 06.38 Horsham to London Bridge service will be strengthened to 12 coaches, as will the 17.32 London Bridge to Tonbridge/Horsham services. A long standing aspiration for Redhill line stakeholders will be met through an additional 19.33 London Bridge to Horsham service, extending the current service pattern from London Bridge by thirty minutes thereby giving improved shoulder peak opportunities for Redhill line passengers.

Other key changes
- An additional 16.23 London Victoria to Selhurst service calling at all stations (except Battersea Park) will be introduced. This extends the 10 minute frequency on the Norbury route by filling the present gap between 16.13 and 16.33.

- An additional 09.36 Crystal Palace to London Bridge service calling at all stations will be introduced. This fills a 17 minute gap in the shoulder peak towards London Bridge on the Sydenham route.

- On the Brighton Mainline, the 07.33 Brighton to London Bridge will now be operated with 10 coach class 442 trains, as will the 17.57 London Bridge to Brighton service. This will release class 377 Electrostar carriages to bolster services within the metro area.

- On the Coastway West, the 06.10 Southampton Central to Brighton service will operate with 4 coaches (instead of 3 coaches) and more Class 313 trains will operate between Brighton and Portsmouth Harbour trains during the day.

- The existing 17.25 and 18.24 London Bridge to Crystal Palace trains will be withdrawn due to low passenger numbers. The 17.19 and 18.19 London Bridge to London Victoria via Crystal Palace service will continue to operate as now as will the 17.36 and 18.36 London Bridge to West Croydon services which will be increased to run with 10 coaches. Coaches released from the withdrawn services have been redeployed to reduce overcrowding on other services on the Redhill route.

- On the West London Line, the existing 10.04 Kensington Olympia to Wandsworth Road service and will depart slightly earlier at 10.02 and will call additionally at West Brompton and Imperial Wharf. The existing 16.12 Wandsworth Road to Kensington Olympia service will now start from Clapham High Street at 16.11 and will call additionally at Imperial Wharf and West Brompton.

- The existing 19.03 London Bridge to Horsham service will be retimed to depart at 18.59 and stop additionally at New Cross Gate enabling further connection opportunities for passengers interchanging with London Overground services.

- The 18.08 London Bridge to Uckfield service will call additionally at Cowden.

- The 21.47 Victoria to Hastings service will call additionally at Cooksbridge in response to stakeholder requests.

There are also a number of other minor changes on our network which will be publicised on station posters & leaflets ahead of the new timetable.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

New timing of the trains haven't been released yet.

The new station building at West Hampstead is going to be open very soon and before December as they will be working on the old entrance.



.

Are they putting barriers in at West Hampstead ?

 

[swt_passenger]

Are they putting barriers in at West Hampstead ?

They are. They were mentioned in one of the press releases awhile back.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

They are. They were mentioned in one of the press releases awhile back.

It is about time - though I imagine they will end up being left open after 8pm (or whenever the station becomes unstaffed) anyway. Could never understand how they get away with having such a busy station unstaffed for long periods.

 

[jon0844]

FCC seem to believe that anyone travelling after 8pm is most likely holding a ticket and returning from a journey during the day.

Going out of London from around 7-9pm, that may well be true. I think they forget the people who are going out for an evening, where 8pm is still early - and therefore free.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Is the MML being upgraded? Hopefully! About time it was smoother and fast, can't wait for that day.

I wonder what FGW will do with the Melksham Line this time? I heard that last year in December was supposed to be a crank up in services, but maybe this time round, I'm sure I read about that ages ago but I doubt it will

 

[anthony263]

Is the MML being upgraded? Hopefully! About time it was smoother and fast, can't wait for that day.

I wonder what FGW will do with the Melksham Line this time? I heard that last year in December was supposed to be a crank up in services, but maybe this time round, I'm sure I read about that ages ago but I doubt it will

Did hear that FGW were looking at it and they have published a proposed timetable for such a service.

I suppose they might be able source a unit off peak

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Good news for residents of East Dundee (you poor souls)! From December, nine additional trains will call at Broughty Ferry Monday-Friday (five northbound and four southbound). These stop will be reviewed next winter and won't affect overall journey times. This represents a 225% service increase from the current 4tpd!

Also in Scotland, the Friends of the Far North Line are calling for a stop at Alness on the 0812 Wick-Inverness from December. This will plug the current six hour gap in services southbound; calling at the station at 1131, and arriving into Inverness at 1213.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Both of the following are taken from the new winter issue of Northern's passenger magazine, with effect from December 2011:
Preston-Ormskirk sees a new timetable for a more even, broadly 90-miute interval service (link), with later last services in each direction
Sherburn-in-Elmet will be served by 'significantly' more York-Selby / Hull trains, allowing later connections from York

 

[bicbasher]

London Overground service changes:

Additional services will run on the East London Line at 08:19 and 08:34 from Surrey Quays to Dalston Junction, Monday to Saturday.

The existing 08.09 train from Clapham Junction to Willesden Junction will become a through service to Stratford, departing Willesden Junction at 08:34.

Extra services will run from Stratford to Camden Road at 22:25 and 22:55, Monday to Saturday ; and from Clapham Junction to Willesden Junction at 22:15 and 22:45 Monday to Saturday.

There will also be additional trains on Sundays at 08:32 from Willesden Junction to Clapham Junction. The existing 19:45 service between Clapham Junction to Willesden Junction will be extended through to Stratford. The 21:49 Willesden Junction to Clapham Junction service will start from Stratford at 21:05.

The extra morning service on the Barking and Gospel Oak line, which departs from Woodgrange Park at 07:59 and runs to Upper Holloway cannot serve Barking and Gospel Oak stations due to the single track arrangements that constrains the number of trains able to run in and out of the stations platforms

 

[SprinterMan]

Arriva Trains Wales are discontinuing WAG1 (57+mk2) and perhaps WAG2 will go over to (67+mk3).

 

[anthony263]

Arriva Trains Wales are discontinuing WAG1 (57+mk2) and perhaps WAG2 will go over to (67+mk3).

Has this actually been confirmed?

 

[newbie babs]

Not sure if I am posting this in the correct thread.

As the bank holidays moves at Christmas due to Xmas day being Sunday, are trains running a normal service on the 27th as I need to go to Lincoln.

 

[anthony263]

Not sure if I am posting this in the correct thread.

As the bank holidays moves at Christmas due to Xmas day being Sunday, are trains running a normal service on the 27th as I need to go to Lincoln.

I think so or a as near to normal service as they can.

 

[SprinterMan]

Has this actually been confirmed?

Not as such, but the 57s are going off-lease and 2 67s are now in ATW base colours.

 

[raildude]

Both of the following are taken from the new winter issue of Northern's passenger magazine, with effect from December 2011:
Preston-Ormskirk sees a new timetable for a more even, broadly 90-miute interval service (link)

I don't really think the Ormskirk-Preston timetable revisions can be made out to be an improvement!

4 trains have been revised and run 20-30mins earlier than previous, but these are off-peak.

There is still an important gap between 16:36 and 17:52 ex Ormskirk.
16:36 too early for people to get to the station from work, 17:52 is far too late, making it very unattractive for a commuter from Preston-Ormskirk!

As for frequency, (I don't really think Northern can say "broadly every 90mins" really:

06:58-07:29 (Wait until next train)
08:06-08:36 (1h08m)  
09:17-09:47 (1h11m)  
10:36-11:08 (1h19m)   
12:17-12:47 (1h41m)   
13:36-14:08 (1h19m)
15:17-15:47 (1h41m)
16:36-17:08 (1h19m)
17:52-18:23 (1h16m)
19:06-19:38 (1h16m)
20:47-21:17 (1h41m)
22:47-23:17 (2h00m)

They should really extend some of these to beyond Preston.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

To where? Doing that you would also lose one train operation.

 

[jopsuk]

Hadn't noticed until today (was waiting idly for a train, next to the changes poster) the fairly big shake up to the off-peak West Anglia Cambridge service. What is currently the xx51 "stopping" pattern train moves to xx21, and the xx32 "semi fast" moves to xx04 (the poster makes it more complex than this- it says the xx51 moves to xx04 and loses stops whilst the xx32 moves to xx21 and gains stops). The services in the opposite direction (departing Liverpool Street at xx28 and xx58) swap places (again the poster does this the long winded way). Sawbridgeworth is dropped entirely from Cambridge off-peak trains.

 

[iphone76]

I've just seen the new NXEA Southend/Mainline table. (Sigh.....)

I hope I am misreading it, as it appears for the best part of the year, there are either no through trains (Southend) or buses (between Shenfield and Witham) on various alternating periods on Mondays/Tuesday/Wednesdays evenings after 10pm.

I hope this replaces the weekend and bank holiday works. #livesinhope

 

[oliverj8]

I've heard that with the new Virgin timetable there's due to be a daily 57/Pendo drag rather than a weekly drag.
Is this true?
Thanks