Serco for Sleeper

[38Cto15E]

Surely a person travelling on business with a Standard class sleeper ticket paid for by his/her company has a right to inform his/her company that he/she is not prepared to share a cabin with someone they do not know.? Not too much to ask is it?

What do TOCs do when a transgender person books a Standard class cabin?

I just had alittle chuckle to myself earlier when the Dustbin lorry came along the road, and it is operated by Serco.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely a person travelling on business with a Standard class sleeper ticket paid for by his/her company has a right to inform his/her company that he/she is not prepared to share a cabin with someone they do not know.? Not too much to ask is it?

As I mentioned that's the one exception I would have to allowing First Class, and is one reason I think the Sleeper should abolish class distinctions but instead just have accommodation categories i.e. single room, twin room etc, with all supplements on top of normal tickets being based on the Standard fare (perhaps a free upgrade to a single room could be offered for those who do have First Class walk-ups).

Personally I'd rather go in the seats than share a cabin with one unknown person, it's just too intimate. I've done it once on a ferry and it was very awkward.

What do TOCs do when a transgender person books a Standard class cabin?

The person is considered to have the gender they specify when booking. Anything else would be illegal, wouldn't it?

Neil

 

[Bodiddly]

It doesn't seem to bother some people that they would be sharing a sleeper cabin with a stranger. I know one guy in particular who can fall asleep at the drop of a hat.
I on the other hand, would rather ride on the roof than share a cabin with someone unknown to me!

 

[marks87]

I agree that's mad. However a prudent employer would insist on the *Standard* advance - i.e. the absolute cheapest option on the required trains or something sensibly approximating to them with the required degree of flexibility.

Of course, the "cheapest" fare isn't always the one with the lowest price.

Business travel is not a holiday, so my time is worth money as well. I can get far more work done in a spacious, individual seat in first class than I can in a cramped table or, worse, airline seat in standard.

In fairness my employer is a university, and thus subject to FOI legislation. Their travel policies are therefore influenced by the Daily Mail-reading zealots who have their pitchforks at the ready for anyone who dares to travel first class - even though FC can work out more economical in terms of productivity.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Of course, the "cheapest" fare isn't always the one with the lowest price.

Business travel is not a holiday, so my time is worth money as well. I can get far more work done in a spacious, individual seat in first class than I can in a cramped table or, worse, airline seat in standard.

This of course rather depends on what work you are needing to get done. Though it can be a good point. I think I would consider authorising it based on specific circumstances. The often huge fare difference is also significant - in some cases it will be cheaper to lose that working time. Particularly with business class air travel, where an Economy flight and a day off to recover is almost always cheaper than a business class flight (and would definitely be my personal preference, as I don't sleep well on planes even in business class), unless you're getting onto very senior staff indeed.

In fairness my employer is a university, and thus subject to FOI legislation. Their travel policies are therefore influenced by the Daily Mail-reading zealots who have their pitchforks at the ready for anyone who dares to travel first class - even though FC can work out more economical in terms of productivity.

Can, but doesn't always. For instance, if you travel London-Brum and spend most of it having breakfast (as you would) that clearly isn't.

Neil

 

[PaxVobiscum]

As I mentioned that's the one exception I would have to allowing First Class, and is one reason I think the Sleeper should abolish class distinctions but instead just have accommodation categories i.e. single room, twin room etc, with all supplements on top of normal tickets being based on the Standard fare (perhaps a free upgrade to a single room could be offered for those who do have First Class walk-ups).

"Twin room!" Ha ha ha - have you seen the sleeper cabins?
That description has to have come from the same school of Truth in Advertising that brought us the "2 man tent".

 

[Bletchleyite]

"Twin room!" Ha ha ha - have you seen the sleeper cabins?
That description has to have come from the same school of Truth in Advertising that brought us the "2 man tent".

Yeah, my rule of tents is that any equipment or luggage counts as one man.

I've been on the Sleeper (First Class) and yes it's cosy, though it's a not inaccurate description in the sense that a twin room is a room with accommodation for two people that isn't a double bed.

Neil

 

[ainsworth74]

Can I ask that discussion about claiming for travel on expenses is carried out on a different thread leaving this one for discussion about the new Serco Sleeper franchise. Thanks

 

[dcd]

Just discovered yesterday that currently if you are intending to use an All Line Rover on a sleeper after 1st April you are likely to encounter problems. According to the telesales they have no process yet in place to sell supplements for using the sleeper. They can only sell complete packages of rail ticket and sleeper. They say they will let me know when the situation changes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just discovered yesterday that currently if you are intending to use an All Line Rover on a sleeper after 1st April you are likely to encounter problems. According to the telesales they have no process yet in place to sell supplements for using the sleeper. They can only sell complete packages of rail ticket and sleeper. They say they will let me know when the situation changes.

Can ticket offices not sell them, or is that only to the last day of ScotRail operation?

Neil

 

[D1009]

So what your trying to say that the overnight that a franchise changes there isn't a team at the first station it stops at after midnight with a full set of stickers, posters and uniform? :roll:

As Scotrail was the last franchise to be let at privatisation, the Scottish sleepers were seen as the last trains run by BR on the night of the changeover. I happened to be travelling from Glasgow to Euston that night, and all passengers were given a celebration miniature of whisky. I still have the bottle, but not the whisky. Not sure whether First Scotrail will do the same this time, though.

 

[ainsworth74]

Okay let me remind everyone, again, please leave this thread for discussion about the new Serco operated sleeper franchise. If anyone wishes to discuss expenses and specifically should first class be claimable please do so on a new thread.

 

[Kite159]

Any sign of the bargain berths yet? Or are Serco going to turn it into a 'premium' service, where they don't want any £19 tickets

 

[Johnuk123]

Any sign of the bargain berths yet? Or are Serco going to turn it into a 'premium' service, where they don't want any £19 tickets

Brilliant the Bargain Berths were if you were quick enough to get one, I have had many over the years in fact I've only paid full price a couple of times.

Doubt they'll continue.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Brilliant the Bargain Berths were if you were quick enough to get one, I have had many over the years in fact I've only paid full price a couple of times.

Doubt they'll continue.

Any reason why they'd scrap them? Bargain Berths started under National Express and continued with First. The trains will still have the same capacity that needs to be filled and so there will be cheap tickets of some sort.

 

[ModernRailways]

Any reason why they'd scrap them? Bargain Berths started under National Express and continued with First. The trains will still have the same capacity that needs to be filled and so there will be cheap tickets of some sort.

I imagine they will be sticking around, but right now Serco haven't got a full range of ticketing options available. I suspect they'll be back after a month or two of Serco operating the sleeper (maybe sooner?)

 

[Fishplate84]

Is a £19 ticket really reasonable for an overnight train journey of up to 12 hours on coaches with very low capacity and a very high delivery cost per passenger? Don't forget, that £19 needs to cover making your bed up and doing laundry.
We all like a bargain, but on any normal train how far do you get for £19? Certainly not anywhere near the length of the country.
Offering these tickets is desperation or an abuse of taxpayer money and given the cost of servicing the train and bed changing it's probably more cost effective to run with an empty cabin.
If that's all someone values the service at, they are not worth giving much attention to.
Sounds harsh, but to chase this strategy suggests running the service at lowest possibly cost and quality. That seems the total opposite to what transport Scotland was looking for from this franchise.

 

[Chrism20]

Is a £19 ticket really reasonable for an overnight train journey of up to 12 hours on coaches with very low capacity and a very high delivery cost per passenger? Don't forget, that £19 needs to cover making your bed up and doing laundry.
We all like a bargain, but on any normal train how far do you get for £19? Certainly not anywhere near the length of the country.
Offering these tickets is desperation or an abuse of taxpayer money and given the cost of servicing the train and bed changing it's probably more cost effective to run with an empty cabin.
If that's all someone values the service at, they are not worth giving much attention to.
Sounds harsh, but to chase this strategy suggests running the service at lowest possibly cost and quality. That seems the total opposite to what transport Scotland was looking for from this franchise.

I agree £19 is dirty cheap and with a bit of marketing it probably could have a much higher lead in and achieve the same or higher loads and the one thing that has not happened in a long time is marketing, particularly outwith the railway, hopefully that will change with Serco.

Re the costs the only additional costs here will be the laundry and the cup of tea etc in reality. The carriage/bed/bunk etc still goes from end to end every night with a steward on it whether it is occupied or not.

Someone will still be paid to clean the train whether one berth or twenty is occupied on a daily basis, admittedly there will be a little extra work if the bunk had been occupied but could still be accommodated within the hourly rate.

Industrial laundering is pretty cheap and probably won't cost £3 a bunk so while First probably aren't making anything on it the bargain berths will help reduce the costs.

Firsts biggest crime with the sleeper is not pushing the cost up over the years to the point the BB have become the norm which could easily have been done with a bit of aggressive marketing, they have never really attempted to improve the product either.

I totally agree when you question whether it is reasonable for that distance for £19 in low density setting particularly if it is being subsidised. If they cannot fill it (or near enough fill it) on a regular basis without BBs it shouldn't be running and as you said £19 won't get you very far on a day train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd imagine Serco are going to experiment and see if they *can* fill it. I expect they will; booking used to be hideously complicated and now it's much easier.

If they don't I can see these making a comeback, but I suspect if they do it'll only be midweek in the middle of winter.

Neil

 

[Agent_c]

I agree £19 is dirty cheap and with a bit of marketing it probably could have a much higher lead in and achieve the same or higher loads and the one thing that has not happened in a long time is marketing, particularly outwith the railway, hopefully that will change with Serco.

Re the costs the only additional costs here will be the laundry and the cup of tea etc in reality. The carriage/bed/bunk etc still goes from end to end every night with a steward on it whether it is occupied or not.

Someone will still be paid to clean the train whether one berth or twenty is occupied on a daily basis, admittedly there will be a little extra work if the bunk had been occupied but could still be accommodated within the hourly rate.

Industrial laundering is pretty cheap and probably won't cost £3 a bunk so while First probably aren't making anything on it the bargain berths will help reduce the costs.

Firsts biggest crime with the sleeper is not pushing the cost up over the years to the point the BB have become the norm which could easily have been done with a bit of aggressive marketing, they have never really attempted to improve the product either.

I totally agree when you question whether it is reasonable for that distance for £19 in low density setting particularly if it is being subsidised. If they cannot fill it (or near enough fill it) on a regular basis without BBs it shouldn't be running and as you said £19 won't get you very far on a day train.

In addition that £19 ticket is more likely to entice someone to try the service for the first time, and presuming they have a pleasant experience, buy more (higher priced) tickets later.

 

[infobleep]

It's probably because they don't want lots of potentially double use cabins occupied cheaply with one person.

If you want your own space, travel first. If you don't, travel standard. Can't see the logic of booking a standard solo anyway, unless it was going to be priced less than the first class price. But see my initial comment. They'd end up loosing a fortune giving away capacity like that.

Personally I find the problem with the Night Rivera is that I believe passengers are forced to pay for a solo berth in standard. I don't mind sharing if it brings the cost down. Not everyone had a partner!

 

[Bletchleyite]

In addition that £19 ticket is more likely to entice someone to try the service for the first time, and presuming they have a pleasant experience, buy more (higher priced) tickets later.

But if sufficient people will buy £150 (or whatever) tickets, then why waste those berths? I think that's Serco's argument, anyway.

Neil

 

[cf111]

Have 16-25 railcards always yielded a discount on 1st class sleeper tickets or is this new for Serco?

 

[theageofthetra]

Any news yet on how non protected priv will work with the new operator? If I want a cabin to myself can this been done with Priv as I believe the Night Riviera can be?

 

[anme]

But if sufficient people will buy £150 (or whatever) tickets, then why waste those berths? I think that's Serco's argument, anyway.

Neil

If Scotrail are competent at demand management (*) then they will only sell berths at £19 that they wouldn't be able to sell at £150. It's the same as cheap advance tickets on day trains and on airlines. The aim is to maximise the overall income and profit.

For better or for worse, this highly differential pricing is now the norm for long distance trains, planes and even some coaches. Compared to a simple model where everyone in the same class pays the same, it means that some (especially leisure and discretionary travellers) can get real bargains, while others (especially those who can't plan their travel far in advance) have to pay many times more for exactly the same service.

(*) I can't comment on whether they are.

 

[Bletchleyite]

(*) I can't comment on whether they are.

I think their general lack of promotion of the service would suggest they may have been missing out on some business. Clearly Serco agree, but if Bargain Berths or equivalent start appearing again I guess they will have been proven wrong, and ScotRail proven right.

Neil

 

[bavvo]

Personally I find the problem with the Night Rivera is that I believe passengers are forced to pay for a solo berth in standard. I don't mind sharing if it brings the cost down. Not everyone had a partner!

Not that different to a normal Hotel though, which you can compare it to. Where as the seated sleeper is more like a Hostel.

Let's face it. Most of us do feel uncomfortable sharing a small cabin with a random stranger, Maybe more so now than in the past. It certainly puts me of, I would only share a cabin with someone I know, otherwise it has to be solo or nothing. I think the Night Riveria has got it right in this respect.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Does anyone know if the rumoured diversion to Waterloo International platforms is happening? I heard talk about that when Serco won the franchise, to get around Euston work.

Personally I think that would actually make a better permanent home for all the sleepers, as there are ready made very long platforms, allowing for much longer trains, and you could also have a much longer dwell time in the morning, which would be an improvement for the customer. It's not much fun being kicked out of bed at the crack of dawn.

Waterloo is a pretty good location for the City and West End, and the extra journey length could easily be accommodated in the slack in the timetables, or by leaving slightly earlier.

Same goes for the Cornish Riveria as well.

I assume SWT have their own plans for the space though.

 

[6Z09]

The new Menu looks to be an improvement.
However given the state of the rolling stock ,getting it on to a customers plate will be difficult to say the least.
Continual power failures, no heating etc!

 

[Mainliner]

The new Menu looks to be an improvement.

Yes, the meals look nice. They will be fine on the earlier-departing trains, especially from Fort William/Inverness.

Perhaps the complete menu isn't yet shown on the meals page, but I think the Lowland trains should also offer a 'midnight snack' menu, as most people will have already eaten well before (e.g.) the 2340 departure time from Edinburgh. I use that train now and again midweek, and very rarely see a meal being ordered, so I can't see that changing, even with a more attractive menu - don't know if it's any different at weekends. I generally just have the cheeseboard, which I note is still on offer, with one of the very good wine choices (see photo!), but a bit more choice would be good.

Similarly, the wider choice of breakfasts will certainly be enjoyable while travelling through the Highlands at around 0900, but less so between 0600 and 0700 on early-arriving trains, when perhaps just some toast, cereals, croissant, etc should also be offered.

 

[gordonthemoron]

pity they're not doing kippers