Serco for Sleeper

[jonnysr]

The new look is very classy, much better than the garish purple First job. Well done Serco.

 

[bavvo]

Agreed, the new website is a massive improvement. I used the sleeper last year and gave up trying to book it on Scotrails own website and ended up using Trainline, despite the extra fees.
I see you can book up to 12 months ahead as well, so it can be sold out much sooner

The standard class solo price is baffling though, and I can't see a way to book adjacent cabins if you want?

Also, for two adults travelling 1st class together, do you get two single cabins or one double (with a goody bag)?

 

[Chrism20]

Agreed, the new website is a massive improvement. I used the sleeper last year and gave up trying to book it on Scotrails own website and ended up using Trainline, despite the extra fees.
I see you can book up to 12 months ahead as well, so it can be sold out much sooner

The standard class solo price is baffling though, and I can't see a way to book adjacent cabins if you want?

Also, for two adults travelling 1st class together, do you get two single cabins or one double (with a goody bag)?

The opening up for twelve months in advance is a great idea and should hopefully make it much more popular particularly with the leisure market that they are aiming for - overseas tourists in particular like to have it all planned down to the last detail well in advance.

I'd imagine First Class will be as it is now and they can open up the connection between the two cabins for you.

 

[bavvo]

Makes sense, at least with the current stock.

When I used the Fort William sleeper last November travelling first class they actually had the 1st class coach out of action (electrical failure) so I was forced to travel in a std class cabin (still solo), and they couldn't stop apologising for the inconvenience which amused me since it was essentially exactly the same.

Is there any more news about the new sleeper designs? All I
have seen so far are the artists sketches of a couple of beds/seats from their website.
Will the new trains in a few years also lead to a change in the service patterns at all? Maybe three nightly departures from London instead of two, so you can have more carriages on some of the legs?

 

[Furrball]

The ability to select berths seems to be broken - picking various dates and destinations at random and no ability to change.

The evening meal prices are a significant increase over the current cost, but more variety on breakfast (could something better than the current offering be prepared in the lounge car kitchen?)

As per other comments the Solo berth price seems high and costs more than 1st class in most instances it would seem

33% discount on railcards

No advance fares?

No details yet of Flexipass
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Also, it appears they are barring lounge access for Standard ticket holders? That won't be popular. I know First Class has priority, but AIUI you can usually get in.


Neil

The site only refers to seated passengers being barred access to the lounge - which is as per current restrictions.

 

[tankmc]

I like the uniforms, but I think the branding looks a bit old-fashioned - I prefer the almost art-deco original version (the blue one on the left).

Neil

Yes agree I much prefer the old logo and colors. Surely blue is more a symbol of scotland and the old logo looks retro rather than dated
The new one just looks dated

 

[amcluesent]

People will just book for two and only one turn up in that case

Risky. 'No show' berths are reallocated to walk-up pax or peeps seeking upgrade from recliners, so you could find yourself sharing

I could understand why, with the total ban on FC in the public sector, the TOC would offer Standard with a supplement to give what these pax really want - single occupancy. Civil Servants know booking a Standard ticket will get nodded through, regardless of the actual cost

 

[tankmc]

The site seems to now be live. Just looking on my phone and seems a nice site. Much clearer when booking tickets.

 

[Clip]

That booking site is seriously slick! Far superior to the one that Scotrail offered.

Ill second this. Went from first page to booking page in very few clicks. Well impressed by those fat cats at Serco.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The site only refers to seated passengers being barred access to the lounge - which is as per current restrictions.

If you go in to book, it describes "priority lounge access" for First Class and "counter service" for standard.

Personally, I'd like to see them drop the classes and replace them with simple accommodation supplements, all paid on a Standard fare. Perhaps First Class Anytime ticket holders would get a free upgrade, but then leave it at that.

I don't see the sense in having a "first class single" and a "standard class single" - there is little or no actual difference.

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The ability to select berths seems to be broken - picking various dates and destinations at random and no ability to change.

The evening meal prices are a significant increase over the current cost, but more variety on breakfast (could something better than the current offering be prepared in the lounge car kitchen?)

With the current one (only used it once) they should either switch to paper hot drinks cups or not go around collecting the crockery until after the "must disembark time" at Euston. It's annoying having to wolf down your coffee when there's plenty of time left.

I additionally note they've thought of gluten free in the main meals but not breakfast.

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Risky. 'No show' berths are reallocated to walk-up pax or peeps seeking upgrade from recliners, so you could find yourself sharing

Ah.

I could understand why, with the total ban on FC in the public sector, the TOC would offer Standard with a supplement to give what these pax really want - single occupancy. Civil Servants know booking a Standard ticket will get nodded through, regardless of the actual cost

But charging more than double the fare for one bed is IMO taking the mick. It should simply be double. Indeed, perhaps it should simply be "if you want single occupancy book both beds and indicate why you've done this when you board" - easy!

Neil

 

[Fishplate84]

If Serco can do it with a fairly complicated product whats the excuse of all the other 'professional' TOCs? Few of them can be bothered to look beyond the mixing desk thing. Feint whiff of cosy industry interests feeding themselves and creating high barriers to entry and none of them or DfT giving much of a stuff about customers as usual.
Well done Serco for not following the herd. Well done Transport Scotland for taking a brave decision and not just running with one of the usual suspects.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If Serco can do it with a fairly complicated product

It's not a "fairly complicated product". There is one train a day per route (it doesn't handle connections), compulsory reservations and a global fare.

It would be dead easy for an IC operator to set up a website that would only do direct tickets with reservations only (we could call it Megatrain! ) but we surely wouldn't want that, would we?

Neil

 

[infobleep]

If you go in to book, it describes "priority lounge access" for First Class and "counter service" for standard.

Personally, I'd like to see them drop the classes and replace them with simple accommodation supplements, all paid on a Standard fare. Perhaps First Class Anytime ticket holders would get a free upgrade, but then leave it at that.

I don't see the sense in having a "first class single" and a "standard class single" - there is little or no actual difference.

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


With the current one (only used it once) they should either switch to paper hot drinks cups or not go around collecting the crockery until after the "must disembark time" at Euston. It's annoying having to wolf down your coffee when there's plenty of time left.

I additionally note they've thought of gluten free in the main meals but not breakfast.

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Ah.



But charging more than double the fare for one bed is IMO taking the mick. It should simply be double. Indeed, perhaps it should simply be "if you want single occupancy book both beds and indicate why you've done this when you board" - easy!

Neil

Perhaps it's to discourage people from taking up a whole berth and thereby reducing the capacity available on the service. Capacity which other passengers might like to have used.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps it's to discourage people from taking up a whole berth and thereby reducing the capacity available on the service. Capacity which other passengers might like to have used.

It's basically a hotel on wheels, and hotels don't object to payers of single supplements. Why should they? They get their money, and one fewer person making the room mucky. Indeed, here's an idea - why not simply charge per unit of accommodation, be that a single room, a double room or a seat (obviously with the maxima there).

Neil

 

[gazthomas]

It's basically a hotel on wheels, and hotels don't object to payers of single supplements. Why should they? They get their money, and one fewer person making the room mucky. Indeed, here's an idea - why not simply charge per unit of accommodation, be that a single room, a double room or a seat (obviously with the maxima there).

Neil

Neil, I agree with the hotel paradigm, it would be appropriate to apply to the sleeper.

 

[Toby!]

It's basically a hotel on wheels, and hotels don't object to payers of single supplements. Why should they? They get their money, and one fewer person making the room mucky. Indeed, here's an idea - why not simply charge per unit of accommodation, be that a single room, a double room or a seat (obviously with the maxima there).

Neil

It is slightly different though as there is a high government subsidy in place. Each unit of accommodation is actually costing money to run, so it is not unreasonable that it should be rationed in some way.

 

[NotATrainspott]

It's not a "fairly complicated product". There is one train a day per route (it doesn't handle connections), compulsory reservations and a global fare.

It would be dead easy for an IC operator to set up a website that would only do direct tickets with reservations only (we could call it Megatrain! ) but we surely wouldn't want that, would we?

Neil

If you click on the little map icon of Great Britain you can book arbitrary National Rail services, with the same zero fees and using a similar new booking engine that is not MixingDeck. It's possible that we might see the same ticketing engine pop up on other TOC's web sites if it has been bought in from an external supplier.

 

[Hadders]

The new website looks quite slick but (unless I've missed it somewhere) are they only effectively selling Advance fares?

Currently you can use a 'walk on' ticket such as a super off-peak ticket and pay the relevant berth supplement fee which is currently £44.20 sharing a twin berth or £62.70 for exclusive use of a twin berth. This is useful if you are travelling to/from further afield or you want to take the sleeper one way and return on a day time train.

Does anyone know if berth supplement fees will still be available? If not how will you get a berth using an All Line Rover?

If you click on the little map icon of Great Britain you can book arbitrary National Rail services, with the same zero fees and using a similar new booking engine that is not MixingDeck. It's possible that we might see the same ticketing engine pop up on other TOC's web sites if it has been bought in from an external supplier.

I think it's the same booking engine that Northern use - presumably the Serco connection.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The new website looks quite slick but (unless I've missed it somewhere) are they only effectively selling Advance fares?

Correct, though they are slightly odd Advance fares in that they are not changeable but are refundable for the standard admin fee, which is the precise opposite of normal Advances.

Currently you can use a 'walk on' ticket such as a super off-peak ticket and pay the relevant berth supplement fee which is currently £44.20 sharing a twin berth or £62.70 for exclusive use of a twin berth. This is useful if you are travelling to/from further afield or you want to take the sleeper one way and return on a day time train.

Does anyone know if berth supplement fees will still be available? If not how will you get a berth using an All Line Rover?

Yes, but only from stations so far. I think they should sell berth supplements online using a similar booking system, with you having the right ticket being your own responsibility (and if you don't when you turn up, you're sold one, I guess Anytime). Pretty sure DB CNL do that.

Neil

 

[Fishplate84]

Isn't there an argument to not do the more complicated variations. One of the big frustrations of the ScotRail site and railways generally is the confusing array of tickets and varieties? Serco probably stand to gain more from clear and easy tickets people can understand and buy than satisfy a small handful of travellers who use it with supplements and combinations. By definition, if they understand how those work they should also be the ones most easily able to understand that a sleeper ticket is just that, clean and simple. How many railway people even in here have said they've given up trying to book the sleeper online because it's unfathomable? And they are in the industry.

Its maybe not an approach that would work on a daytime train service, but surely most people using the sleeper will have deliberately planned around it?

 

[2R84]

Had a look at booking for 23rd Dec. - it seems some berth options fully booked already !!

Unfortunately while 12 months of dates appear in the selection process, the latest date that can currently be booked is 14th June 2015.

 

[najaB]

How many railway people even in here have said they've given up trying to book the sleeper online because it's unfathomable? And they are in the industry.

I don't have much good to say about TheTrainline but they make booking the sleeper incredibly simple. The screenshots attached below gives an exmple - the fare below the highlighted one in the first screenshot is a ticket+berth net fare, or you can choose one of the standard fares and the next screen asks if you want a berth or not (second screenshot).

I've no idea why other sites aren't as easy to use.

 

[DEE-DE]

Unfortunately while 12 months of dates appear in the selection process, the latest date that can currently be booked is 14th June 2015.

Seems like they've blocked bookings for after the new timetable. But they certainly were available earlier on Thursday.

 

[reb0118]

........Isn't there an argument to not do the more complicated variations........................Serco probably stand to gain more from clear and easy tickets people can understand and buy,........................[rather] than satisfy a small handful of travellers who use it with supplements and combinations..........

I can not speak for the berths, although I suspect that it is broadly similar, but I know from experience that a significant percentage of passengers in the seated coach (of the Highland Portion(s)) travel with tickets to destinations beyond the range of the sleeper. Namely:-

• Liverpool & stations in Merseyside (change at Preston).
• Birmingham & West Midlands; North & South Wales (change at Crewe)
• Greater London & Stations in the South & South East England (change at Euston)

Off the top of my head it is an average of about 40 - 60% of the trains I work.

I'm not sure if having through Advance tickets rte: Caledonian Sleeper & Connections would not be a useful addition to the database similar to those offered by East Coast and Virgin at present? Discuss..........

 

[najaB]

I'm not sure if having through tickets rte: Caledonian Sleeper & Connections would not be a useful addition to the database? Discuss..........

They're already mapped routes so journey planners should spit them out no problem already - for example I've booked Dundee to Birmingham no problem. And what about if I want to get the sleeper one way and a day train the other?

 

[JaJaWa]

If you click on the little map icon of Great Britain you can book arbitrary National Rail services, with the same zero fees and using a similar new booking engine that is not MixingDeck. It's possible that we might see the same ticketing engine pop up on other TOC's web sites if it has been bought in from an external supplier.

It's called the AsserTIS engine. Northern Rail have used it for years and it's also used on TrainGenius. Mytrainticket used to use it but they've switched to using thetrainline's engine.

 

[reb0118]

I'm not sure if having through tickets rte: Caledonian Sleeper & Connections would not be a useful addition to the database? Discuss..........

They're already mapped routes so journey planners should spit them out no problem already - for example I've booked Dundee to Birmingham no problem. And what about if I want to get the sleeper one way and a day train the other?

Sorry, I should have been more specific. We already have through walk up tickets to & from the vast majority of UK stations what I am suggesting is the introduction of advance tickets routed Cal Sleeper (or Seat) & Connections similar to what we already have on the day services e.g. EC & Connections and VWC & Connections (other options are available). I will edit my original post.

 

[najaB]

Sorry, I should have been more specific. We already have through walk up tickets to & from the vast majority of UK stations what I am suggesting...

Ah, right. That was me being dense as well I agree that would be a good idea. It is annoying that you can't get through-routed Advances on the Sleeper. I once had to do Dundee to Cardiff and back on Advances and ended up with a pack of cards.

 

[reb0118]

No worries, if we think about a Passenger from North Berwick [NBW] wishing to travel to London [EUS] without splitting tickets. The cheapest Advance fare with Virgin (rte: +AP Rugby) is £22. With East Coast (EC & Connections it is £31. Now if the passenger wished to take the sleeper there are no though Advance fares and the cheapest ticket is the Super Off Peak single at £131.20 + a berth supplement if required. To me this puts the sleeper at a severe disadvantage compared to the day services.

For those in the know, and not everyone is, the cheapest way is to split when using the sleeper. NBW to Edinburgh [EDB] is £6.30 plus a bargain berth from £19 or seated advance from £23.90 for the EDB to EUS section.

This seems crazy when both legs are operated by one company (for the present) but you can use two or more companies trains on an Advance issued by one of the day service operators.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't there an argument to not do the more complicated variations.

Yes.

To be honest, if we would just hurry up and move to single-fare pricing on long-distance services, where the Anytime/Off Peak/Super Off Peak Single is priced at a simple half of the return, and restrictions are symmetrical between both halves, having the Sleeper as a completely separate unit with "global fares" wouldn't be a problem at all - there would be no need to sell berths for existing ticket holders, as they'd simply buy a single at half the return to get back on regular trains.

Indeed, as I've said before, all excesses could be abolished if we did this, and simply replace them with the idea that if you refund a ticket, and at the same time purchase an equivalent but slightly different ticket (would need to define this, but "same origin or destination" would probably do the trick, possibly with a minimum fare to stop people circumventing an admin fee by trading down to a ticket costing £1) the admin fee for a refund would be waived.

As it is, I've got little motivation (unless there is an Advance available at a suitable time) to get the train back - I might as well fly using a low-cost where a return is simply twice the single. (One of the key markets for the Sleeper is for business users who often, when doing a weekly commute, would be pricing the Sleeper against a crack of dawn outward flight, but would be more likely to return on a Thursday or Friday evening on a daytime train).

Neil