Serco for Sleeper

[Bodiddly]

I feel we should be discussing the plans for the new franchise rather than opinions on Serco as a company...

No, we should be discussing why a company with such a shocking record of deceit to the taxpayer landed such a prestigious government contract in the first place.

 

[cj_1985]

No, we should be discussing why a company with such a shocking record of deceit to the taxpayer landed such a prestigious government contract in the first place.

i thought that was because Serco offered brand new stock, where as the other bidders offered refurbished/rebuilt mk3s.

Can't remember what magazine i read that in though.

 

[Bodiddly]

i thought that was because Serco offered brand new stock, where as the other bidders offered refurbished/rebuilt mk3s.

Can't remember what magazine i read that in though.

What Serco offered is irrelevent here. This is a company who were found to have defrauded the UK taxpayer in several key contracts pertaining to criminal justice and healthcare. The big question that has not been answered yet from Transport Scotland and the Transport Minister Keith Brown is this;
Why was Serco shortlisted for a government contract?
We need an answer on this before we dissect how Serco will actually run this all singing, all dancing sleeper.

 

[Clip]

What Serco offered is irrelevent here. This is a company who were found to have defrauded the UK taxpayer in several key contracts pertaining to criminal justice and healthcare. The big question that has not been answered yet from Transport Scotland and the Transport Minister Keith Brown is this;
Why was Serco shortlisted for a government contract?
We need an answer on this before we dissect how Serco will actually run this all singing, all dancing sleeper.

Why do you need to discuss this? They obviously had management in place to defraud the Govt by this. The head of Serco fell on his sword and left the company and IIRC Serco have paid fines relating to that scandal.

What you have to remember is that Serco as a group has many offshoots and you cannot taint their rail division with one that has no bearing on it. In fact the divisions are very clear in the structure.

There is no reason at all why Serco Transport shouldnt be allowed to bid for rail franchises.

Get the chip off your shoulder and discuss the new Sleeper franchise as you are going way off topic.

 

[Bodiddly]

Why do you need to discuss this? They obviously had management in place to defraud the Govt by this. The head of Serco fell on his sword and left the company and IIRC Serco have paid fines relating to that scandal.

What you have to remember is that Serco as a group has many offshoots and you cannot taint their rail division with one that has no bearing on it. In fact the divisions are very clear in the structure.

There is no reason at all why Serco Transport shouldnt be allowed to bid for rail franchises.

Get the chip off your shoulder and discuss the new Sleeper franchise as you are going way off topic.

So you think it's OK to have your hard earned cash stolen by a ' branch' of a mega corporation? And everything is then Rosie in the garden because the Chief Exec stands down with a multi million pound pay off?
I don't my friend. But each to their own.

 

[theshillito]

So you think it's OK to have your hard earned cash stolen by a ' branch' of a mega corporation? And everything is then Rosie in the garden because the Chief Exec stands down with a multi million pound pay off?
I don't my friend. But each to their own.

Yep. I don't give a monkeys. I don't care what companies do as long as they give the service they have signed up to, and the plans for the sleeper (the original point of this topic) seem like a great improvement that I'm looking forward to them implementing.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Unfortunately there isn't a vast amount that Transport Scotland were able to do about not going for Serco unless they wanted to risk humiliation through the courts. Serco's bid was significantly better according the criteria set out in the ITT than any of the others.

 

[Bodiddly]

Unfortunately there isn't a vast amount that Transport Scotland were able to do about not going for Serco unless they wanted to risk humiliation through the courts. Serco's bid was significantly better according the criteria set out in the ITT than any of the others.

Serco's bid was the only bid to include new stock. If what I understand about the bidding process after short listing, all bids are treated with anonymity.
This means the decision is made on what the bidder includes in their franchise commitment. I have been told that the other bidders who lost out all made very good bids for the franchise but all included refurbishment of the current stock. Now of course, the panel will decide that a bid of new stock should win and quite rightly so.
Now this 'chip' I have on my shoulder is actually a genuine worry about how the government dish out multi million pound contracts to a select few outsourcing companies. To even allow a company who have defrauded the taxpayer permission to bid for further government contracts is morally and fundamentally wrong and in my opinion, very disturbing. This isn't just about Serco, this goes deeper. ATOS, CAPITA and G4S have equally caused headlines for their working practices. If people think that these companies do a good job in fulfilling their current contracts, that is entirely their opinion and should post their own experience of them to restore the balanced argument.

 

[Clip]

So you think it's OK to have your hard earned cash stolen by a ' branch' of a mega corporation? And everything is then Rosie in the garden because the Chief Exec stands down with a multi million pound pay off?
I don't my friend. But each to their own.

. I never inferred such a thing in my post and have not let my personal feelings shown.

Read again what I wrote.

And I am not your friend.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Now this 'chip' I have on my shoulder is actually a genuine worry about how the government dish out multi million pound contracts to a select few outsourcing companies. To even allow a company who have defrauded the taxpayer permission to bid for further government contracts is morally and fundamentally wrong and in my opinion, very disturbing. This isn't just about Serco, this goes deeper. ATOS, CAPITA and G4S have equally caused headlines for their working practices. If people think that these companies do a good job in fulfilling their current contracts, that is entirely their opinion and should post their own experience of them to restore the balanced argument.

Speak to Transport for Scotland then as it was they I believe who awarded the contract.


Is it possible for another thread about the distaste for outsourcing companies as this is distracting from the topic of the Sleeper.

 

[DEE-DE]

From tomorrow tickets for departures operated by Serco should be available. Does anyone know if this means any changes to advance tickets, in particular Bargain Berths. I travel from Scotland to Germany a few times a year so it's always quite hard to keep train travel value for money compared to flying. I would have to start booking my easter travel home next week which is why I am asking.

Also any idea what will happen to the Advance Card? At the moment it's nice being able to get a shower before doing a lengthy stopover in London and then several hours of onward travel to Germany. I know there are showers in KGX but they are not free and it's another detour.

I also hope they will keep the £4 breakfast upgrade as that's definitely value for money.

 

[First class]

From tomorrow tickets for departures operated by Serco should be available. Does anyone know if this means any changes to advance tickets, in particular Bargain Berths. I travel from Scotland to Germany a few times a year so it's always quite hard to keep train travel value for money compared to flying. I would have to start booking my easter travel home next week which is why I am asking.

Also any idea what will happen to the Advance Card? At the moment it's nice being able to get a shower before doing a lengthy stopover in London and then several hours of onward travel to Germany. I know there are showers in KGX but they are not free and it's another detour.

I also hope they will keep the £4 breakfast upgrade as that's definitely value for money.

The new berth inclusive single fares are:

Standard Class:

£66.30
£81.80
£108.30 (solo use)
£123.80 (solo use)
£128.00
£164.00
£169.90
£190.80
£203.50 (solo use)
£218.80 (solo use)

First Class:

£152.10
£174.00
£194.80
£218.80
£235.50

Pets:

£94.00

Ticket types:
SB* are Standard Class Berth singles
1S* are First Class Berth singles

All the other old ticket types are withdrawn when ScotRail go, (e.g. SP*, VA*).

Railcard/PRIV discounts do not seem to be permitted on the berth inclusive ticket types.

 

[IanXC]

I can't remember if this has been mentioned up thread, but a TOC code has appeared - predictably CS.

 

[higthomas]

The new berth inclusive single fares are:

Standard Class:

£66.30
£81.80
£108.30 (solo use)
£123.80 (solo use)
£128.00
£164.00
£169.90
£190.80
£203.50 (solo use)
£218.80 (solo use)

First Class:

£152.10
£174.00
£194.80
£218.80
£235.50

Pets:

£94.00

Ticket types:
SB* are Standard Class Berth singles
1S* are First Class Berth singles

All the other old ticket types are withdrawn when ScotRail go, (e.g. SP*, VA*).

Railcard/PRIV discounts do not seem to be permitted on the berth inclusive ticket types.

So bargin berths are no more?

 

[Blindtraveler]

I think banning Railcards is perhaps a bit of an own goll, if indeed banned they are.

 

[DEE-DE]

Seems like they open bookings 12 months in advance:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...travel+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=opera
Sorry for using google cache, their site is down right now.
I guess it will be impossible to get any good fares three months in advance now.

 

[starrymarkb]

I'm guessing they are going after the premium traffic rather then low yielding bargain berths.

 

[infobleep]

How can they do bookings 12 months in advance given engineering works is only known 3 months in advance. I thought that was the reason bookings were only 3 months currently.

 

[howittpie]

It looks like Megabus gold for me. The fare are about 50% less I bet they are laughing.

 

[Class 170101]

How can they do bookings 12 months in advance given engineering works is only known 3 months in advance. I thought that was the reason bookings were only 3 months currently.

I expect they will go the way East Coast are going, you may book 12 months in advance and we will give you a no quibble refund if the train isn't running at the three month window due to engineering works.

 

[thealexweb]

I think banning Railcards is perhaps a bit of an own goll, if indeed banned they are.

Is it within a TOC's remit to refuse railcards?

 

[cjt0131]

I have used the scotrail sleeper a few times and have found the staff to be really top class and better than most other train staff

but the seats and berths are in my opinion very out dated so I look forward to the new trains when they arrive an en suite cabin for me will be a great asset

I know this will take time but I for one am prepared to wait and give them a chance to deliver what they have promised

 

[starrymarkb]

It looks like Megabus gold for me. The fare are about 50% less I bet they are laughing.

In other words CS are chasing premium traffic and leaving the budget market to the coaches

 

[infobleep]

I expect they will go the way East Coast are going, you may book 12 months in advance and we will give you a no quibble refund if the train isn't running at the three month window due to engineering works.

Perhaps all rail companies should implement this. Wouldn't be that difficult I would have thought if both East Coast and Serco can do it.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Is it within a TOC's remit to refuse railcards?

That I dont know but would think it unlikely if it was, esp given that (unless things change with the franchise) then the 04:50x Waverley, the evening FortBill>Waverley and the the down Inverness portions accept regular passengers at 1 time or another. Maybe someone can clarrify?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In other words CS are chasing premium traffic and leaving the budget market to the coaches

Meaning that after 18 months or so they will be able to say not enough use is being made of it and hand it back/wind it down.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Is it within a TOC's remit to refuse railcards?

Bear in mind that the current Sleeper discount on railcards is not the same percentage as it is everywhere else; I believe it is 10% on the actual berth element?

As far as I understand things, in the case of the Sleeper berths the discount is discretionary in any case. i.e. ScotRail don't have to do it, but they do. I do agree it would be very good PR to do so.

 

[arabianights]

Meaning that after 18 months or so they will be able to say not enough use is being made of it and hand it back/wind it down.

And what would the point of the entire enterprise be? They are (I assume) out to make money, not to spend it being pointlessly evil

 

[Chrism20]

Tbh I can't see the Bargain Berths being gone forever or for that long to be honest.

They were introduced by NX IIRC who obviously couldn't sell them all every night at full price. First kept them and IMO made them easier to purchase.

Until 2018 when the new carriages arrive this is effectively the same service, very little has changed.

Unless there is the mother of all marketing campaigns how on earth do they expect to fill it night in night out? Whilst the bargain berths were probably only breaking even or or helping towards the staffing costs they helped up the occupancy and reduce the losses on the quiet turns.

Talking of marketing campaigns - where is it? Given that it's standalone and we are now three months out surely there should be some kind of advertising happening?

I also cannot wait to see the look on the MPs and regular business clients faces - many of them who use the service several times a week the first time the "Comedy" or "The accordion" sparks up in the lounge car.

They are clearly going for tourists rather than a broad mix which IMO is a mistake.

Also do they have an agreement in place with First or Abellio for the sale of tickets? People are used to going to Scotrail for the tickets if there isn't an agreement in place will people think the service has been discontinued and book a day train?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ignoring Railcards for a minute, I have wondered if they'd take it out of the national fares system. It's something that is otherwise quite hard to sell online, and is relatively stand-alone - so would it not be easier if it was completely separate?

Perhaps, at a push, a separate site could allow you to book a supplement to an existing ticket, itself purchased via normal sales channels.

It could also then be 100% e-ticketed.

Neil

 

[59CosG95]

Tbh I can't see the Bargain Berths being gone forever or for that long to be honest.

They were introduced by NX IIRC who obviously couldn't sell them all every night at full price. First kept them and IMO made them easier to purchase.

Until 2018 when the new carriages arrive this is effectively the same service, very little has changed.

Unless there is the mother of all marketing campaigns how on earth do they expect to fill it night in night out? Whilst the bargain berths were probably only breaking even or or helping towards the staffing costs they helped up the occupancy and reduce the losses on the quiet turns.

Talking of marketing campaigns - where is it? Given that it's standalone and we are now three months out surely there should be some kind of advertising happening?

I also cannot wait to see the look on the MPs and regular business clients faces - many of them who use the service several times a week the first time the "Comedy" or "The accordion" sparks up in the lounge car.

They are clearly going for tourists rather than a broad mix which IMO is a mistake.

They'll probably just get berth service in their all-frills ensuite berths.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The whole thing smacks of them not knowing what there doing!