Senior railcard

[JollyBoyJohn]

Hi everyone,
I'm trying to help an elderly relative get a Senior Railcard (they are over 60) to save money on train travel, but we've run into a bit of a snag with the ID requirements.
The issue is with their proof of age/identity. The official application usually asks for a valid Passport or UK Driving Licence. My relative currently only has:
An expired UK Passport.
Their original Birth Certificate.
A bus pass (with their photo on it).
The nearest station is East Kilbride.
From what I've read, online applications often insist on the number from a valid passport or driving licence.
My question is: What would be the easiest and most reliable way to get the Senior Railcard with the documents they have?
Specifically, does anyone know:
Can they use the Birth Certificate to apply in person at a staffed station ticket office (like East Kilbride)? I've seen conflicting information about this for in-person applications.
Would the expired passport be accepted at a ticket office for proof of age?
Does a bus pass count as acceptable photo ID when combined with the Birth Certificate?
Any advice on the simplest route to take would be hugely appreciated, especially from those who have successfully applied for a Senior Railcard without a valid passport or driving licence!
Thanks in advance!


EDIT:
Thanks for the answers in the end I went through national rail online and selected passport as id and inputed a passport number from their passport that expired 10yrs ago. Its worked smoothly and has been delivered today no problems.
Just a very unclear website.

 

[bakerstreet]

The requirements on the senior railcard site do appear quite restrictive.

But less so on - for example - SWR who simply say

Buying a physical Senior Railcard​

For a physical Senior Railcard, you can download an application form and apply at any National Rail staffed ticket office or by post. You will require some proof of age.

You should allow five working days for your application to be processed and have your railcard posted to you. You can also pay for Special Delivery service if you want your railcard delivered within two days.

Senior Railcard | Over 60 Railcard | South Western Railway

Get 1/3 off rail travel with the Senior Railcard, available for everyone aged 60 and over, plus get special offers on attractions. Discover more here.

www.southwesternrailway.com

Unfortunately the Scotrail site - relevant in your case - says

Can I buy a Senior Railcard at the station?
You can apply in person, by visiting any staffed station ticket office and providing a valid passport, UK driving licence or National Identity Card number, to prove your date of birth.
You will only be able to travel on discounted tickets once you have your Senior Railcard. Also note that you cannot buy Railcards in advance of your 60th birthday in person at rail stations.

Senior Railcard

If you’re 60 or over, the Senior Railcard is for you. Costing £35 a year, you can save 1/3 OFF train travel across Scotland and the UK.

www.scotrail.co.uk

It’s probably worth trying at the station with the evidence held. In the end, they just want proof of entitlement/eligibility so you’d hope some staff would feel able to be pragmatic

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Can an online application not still.be made using details from the expired passport? Fairly sure that the date of birth details that need to be verified are contained (albeit in mixed up order) in what's commonly referred to as the '30 digit passport number'.

 

[JollyBoyJohn]

Can an online application not still.be made using details from the expired passport? Fairly sure that the date of birth details that need to be verified are effectively contained (albeit mixed up) in what's usually referred to as the '30 digit passport number'.

Not sure but if I do it and pay with the the id as an expired passport and it gets declined do I get a refund or is it tough luck?

 

[JBuchananGB]

Passport holder's date of birth is shown clearly on the passport. The holder's date of birth doesn't change just because the passport has expired. I agree that they should try at the station.

 

[ainsworth74]

I reckon it's worth having a punt at a ticket office. 50p says they'll go for an expired passport, as noted by @JBuchananGB above, your date of birth doesn't change just because the passport has expired. Especially if you go along with the berth certificate as well to back it up.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Not sure but if I do it and pay with the the id as an expired passport and it gets declined do I get a refund or is it tough luck?

It's a risk, but doubt the senior railcard website would proceed to allowing any payment to be made if it hadn't first determined that the applicant's age had been 'satisfactorily' verified.

 

[ian1944]

The bus pass has the same age requirement so should be acceptable evidence. How was it obtained, anyway?

 

[DaveB10780]

The bus pass has the same age requirement so should be acceptable evidence. How was it obtained, anyway?

Sadly not in most of the country.

 

[Merthyr Imp]

This is from the application form in the Railcard leaflet I picked up a couple of months ago:



So you could take either the original birth certificate or a photocopy along to a station if applying there (which is what I must have done, although it's a long while ago now!), or send a photocopy of it with a postal application. It warns not to send the original birth certificate with a postal application as it would be destroyed.

 

[ess]

Is the bus pass also a Scotland National Entitlement Card? Does Scotrail accept those as proof of identity? www.nec.scot

 

[Wawanesa]

I know it says that proof of age is required but I've never been asked to do so at a station so I assume that they only check if you look very young for your age.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

(Edit - sorry, I have messed up the formatting)

For what it's worth, the senior Railcard website saysApply in personYou can also apply for your Railcard by visiting any staffed station ticket office and get your Railcard on the same day! Just be sure to allow yourself plenty of time between purchasing your Railcard and when you need to depart for your journey.

Before visiting the ticket office, make sure you have everything with you listed below:



A completed application form, which you can print and download here
A valid form of identification such as a Passport, UK Driving Licence, EEA National Identity card or birth certificate
A valid debit or credit card

(source https://www.senior-railcard.co.uk/about-the-railcard/where-to-buy/ : my italics for emphasis)

so it sounds as if the ScotRail website is being overly picky. I think the advice to try East Kilbride (maybe with your relative in tow?) stands good.

 

[cool110]

Fairly sure that the date of birth details that need to be verified are contained (albeit in mixed up order) in what's commonly referred to as the '30 digit passport number

That's the 16 character driving licence number, the passport MRZ is normal YYMMDD.

 

[JBuchananGB]

AFAIK proof of age is only required the first time you obtain a Senior Railcard. All renewals make the assumption that the requirement has been met.
I obtained my first one donkey's years ago through the Basildon Council Discount scheme.

https://www.basildon.gov.uk/seniortravel

Senior Citizen Discounted Travel​

Eligible older and disabled people may be entitled to discounted or concession travel.​

---

Senior Citizen Railcards issued by Senior-Rail​

To get a discount when applying to Senior-Rail for a Senior Citizen Railcard, senior citizens must follow these steps:

• Step 1 - Ask for a Senior Citizen Railcard Discount Promotion Code from reception in the council's town centre offices at the Basildon Centre during . - Proof of age and address are needed (e.g.; passport, driving licence, health certificate, etc.). Please note: A Discount Promotion Code cannot be issued to a third party. Residents who want a Discount Promotion Code must come into the Basildon Centre in person.
• Step 2- Use your Discount Promotion Code to apply for a Senior Citizen Railcard at the discounted price of £24 from Senior-Railcard, either online or by phone:
  • Website: Visit www.senior-railcard.co.uk(opens new window)
  • 08448 714036 (Calls cost 5p per minute).

 

[MarlowDonkey]

AFAIK proof of age is only required the first time you obtain a Senior Railcard.

It's a commercial scheme, so it only has to be proved once and an expired passport might be just as good as a current one.

I suspect in practice whether you hold one or not, you won't always be challenged to produce it if you look old enough.

 

[Haywain]

Sadly not in most of the country.

Are you suggesting that there is some part of the country where an older persons bus pass is available to people who wouldn't qualify for a Senior Railcard?

 

[DaveB10780]

Are you suggesting that there is some part of the country where an older persons bus pass is available to people who wouldn't qualify for a Senior Railcard?

No the opposite, bus passes are now at 67 for lots of us so you can get a railcard well before and need a passport/driving license.

 

[Haywain]

No the opposite, bus passes are now at 67 for lots of us so you can get a railcard well before and need a passport/driving license.

So, for a bus pass holder, the bus pass should be acceptable evidence of age. The post I replied to seemed to suggest otherwise.

 

[sheff1]

As others have said, any of the 3 things your relative has should be fine for a purchase at a station - take them all for a belt amd braces approach.

East Kilbride should have a paper application form to complete but you can complete and print the online form using the link under 'Apply in person' on this page and take that.

Where to buy - Senior Railcard

www.senior-railcard.co.uk

 

[fandroid]

If it's any comfort, I bought a Senior Railcard at Glasgow Central ticket office without being asked for any proof of age at all!

 

[Llandudno]

If it's any comfort, I bought a Senior Railcard at Glasgow Central ticket office without being asked for any proof of age at all!

Not sure that’s anything to brag about….lol!

 

[fandroid]

Not sure that’s anything to brag about….lol!

Probably right, the white hair gives it away.

Having thought seriously about it, I think a ticket office should be happy to accept an expired passport. After all the applicant has been through a rigorous identity check and nothing concerning identity is likely to be changed on further renewal. The risk to the railway is one of those that's so small as to be not worth worrying about.

 

[PaulLothian]

We (both in our 70s) went to buy our Senior Railcards at our local station, after the local concessions we previously used were cancelled by the council as a cost-saving measure.
'Do you want to see our birth certificates?' we asked.
'No, that's OK', said the clerk. 'You look...' (miniscule pause) '... honest!'

 

[talldave]

I would urge your relative to renew their passport. It's a vital piece of ID nowadays for banks, benefits, solicitors and railcards! It can be renewed online provided someone can take and upload a photo and arrives in a few days.

 

[Falcon1200]

I would urge your relative to renew their passport.

At a cost of £94.50, minimum!

It's a vital piece of ID nowadays for banks, benefits, solicitors and railcards!

For many of which an expired passport should be acceptable, but in practice is often not. For example, my Mum was left a bequest by a friend but the solicitors required either a valid passport or driving licence to transfer the money, neither of which she (at 95) has, or will ever have or need again.

 

[talldave]

At a cost of £94.50, minimum!



For many of which an expired passport should be acceptable, but in practice is often not. For example, my Mum was left a bequest by a friend but the solicitors required either a valid passport or driving licence to transfer the money, neither of which she (at 95) has, or will ever have or need again.

Agreed, but my mum renewed her passport aged 90, nearly 10 years after it had expired, for the same reason of dealing with solicitors. It costs, but reduces the stress of handling such situations.

 

[fandroid]

Agreed, but my mum renewed her passport aged 90, nearly 10 years after it had expired, for the same reason of dealing with solicitors. It costs, but reduces the stress of handling such situations.

I wonder why an expired passport is not "valid" for ID purposes? It's not valid for travel abroad, but that's not the same issue. If someone is seeking a photo id, I wonder if a provisional driving licence would be a cheaper bet? Probably not as quick as getting a passport. They seem to be highly efficient in turning those around now.

 

[jfollows]

An expired passport is explicitly valid for voter identification purposes, I recall, and there’s no real reason not to use it for other purposes, but some industries will come down hard on staff who don’t follow their rules. I was once visiting the USA after having lived there and my expired drivers license wasn’t accepted as proof of age (I needed to be 21 and was in fact 31 or more). Fortunately on this occasion I had my passport on me. I didn’t blame the waiter, although of course I said “but I’m not expired” in mild frustration.

 

[ClivePage]

I suppose that this is one area where the Government's proposed "Digital ID" system might be helpful - assuming that an elderly person with no current driving licence or passport can get hold of one in the first place. I don't support the Digital ID card as proposed, as it seems to be an expensive way of possibly solving a minor problem, but there are one or two situations where it might help, and buying a Senior Railcard could be one.