Semi Flex query

[AlbertBeale]

I have a Semi Flex return on a train out of London Waterloo, which (I understood) was like a combination of a Saver outbound and a regular off-peak period return on the way back (for an intermediate price, between that of a pair of single Savers and a regular off-peak period return). But the outward ticket has no specific train time on it. Is this because the outward portion of a Semi Flex isn't actually treated identically to a Saver by the ticketing system, and hence could - in practice - be used on a train of my choice on that day other than the one I referred to when booking? Thanks in advance to the experts here who will know this!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Thought that SWR's "Semi Flex" product was more akin to being an Advance ticket on the outward leg (so booked train only, maybe just a counted place, but possibly no actual seat reservation) and then, on the way back, a wider range of possible trains that may be used (within a month) albeit subject to certain time restrictions. Surprised, therefore, that the outward ticket isn't for a specific train/itinerary, and doesn't come with an accompanying "reservation" requirement.

 

[Starmill]

for an intermediate price, between that of a pair of single Savers and a regular off-peak period return

This is a good demonstration of why people use the actual product names I'm afraid. The use of the term Saver is not consistent here, because in most areas the former Saver Return is the Off Peak Return.

Super Off Peak Returns for long SWR journeys are quite a new thing, and have replaced Super Off Peak Day Returns, or the ludicrously titled Evening tickets in some areas, along with the Semi Flex Returns.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Feb 2023 ==

Thought that SWR's "Semi Flex" product was more akin to being an Advance ticket on the outward leg (so booked train only, maybe just a counted place, but possibly no actual seat reservation) and then, on the way back, a wider range of possible trains that may be used (within a month) albeit subject to certain time restrictions.

That's the idea yes.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Thought that SWR's "Semi Flex" product was more akin to being an Advance ticket on the outward leg (so booked train only, maybe just a counted place, but possibly no actual seat reservation) and then, on the way back, a wider range of possible trains that may be used (within a month) albeit subject to certain time restrictions. Surprised, therefore, that the outward ticket isn't for a specific train/itinerary, and doesn't come with an accompanying "reservation" requirement.

This is a good demonstration of why people use the actual product names I'm afraid. The use of the term Saver is not consistent here, because in most areas the former Saver Return is the Off Peak Return.

Super Off Peak Returns for long SWR journeys are quite a new thing, and have replaced Super Off Peak Day Returns, or the ludicrously titled Evening tickets in some areas, along with the Semi Flex Returns.

Yes - sorry - I'd meant to say "like a combination of an Advance (not a Saver) outbound and a regular off-peak period return on the way back". [And my other references to "Saver" were also meant to have been to "Advance"!]

So yes, my confusion (ie the confusion I'd meant to refer to) is precisely because the outward portion of the Semi Flex ticket has no specific train noted on the ticket, which seems strange for a ticket equivalent to an Advance. Hence could it - in practice - be used on a train of my choice on that day other than the one I referred to when booking?

 

[Starmill]

Yes - sorry - I'd meant to say "like a combination of an Advance (not a Saver) outbound and a regular off-peak period return on the way back". [And my other references to "Saver" were also meant to have been to "Advance"!]

So yes, my confusion (ie the confusion I'd meant to refer to) is precisely because the outward portion of the Semi Flex ticket has no specific train noted on the ticket, which seems strange for a ticket equivalent to an Advance. Hence could it - in practice - be used on a train of my choice on that day other than the one I referred to when booking?

How curious. Where did you book the ticket?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

How curious. Where did you book the ticket?

@AlbertBeale will of course know, but they are certainly available online via SWR's own website.

Semi Flex Return Tickets | Semi Flexible | South Western Railway

Semi Flex Return tickets can save you money on your return ticket if you don't mind being committed to catching a specific train on your outward journey. See more.

www.southwesternrailway.com

One slightly unusual thing when I attempted to replicate a "Semi Flex Return" booking from London Waterloo to Winchester (a route operated by SWR) was that the proposed itinerary (for the outward leg) suggested that a reservation for that leg was both compulsory and yet, at the same time, optional, whatever that actually means?!

 

[fandroid]

Remember that SWR doesn't do seat reservations, just restricts Advance tickets (normally!) to a specified train.

 

[Watershed]

Remember that SWR doesn't do seat reservations, just restricts Advance tickets (normally!) to a specified train.

They don't do "real seat reservations". They do have counter place reservations, which are used to tie you to your booked train on their Advances.

 

[Timetraveller]

SWR Semi flex return is a combination of an advance fixed outward ticket (booked train only) and return as a super off peak return within a calendar month. Therefore return restriction from Monday to Saturdays is either leaving after 12pm or arriving in London after 2pm and travel anytime on Sundays. Additonal restrictions for London Waterloo, Vauxhall and Clapham are between Monday and Saturday being not leaving between 4pm and 7pm (same as Super off Peak and not Off peak)

 

[PeterC]

SWR Semi flex return is a combination of an advance fixed outward ticket (booked train only) and return as a super off peak return within a calendar month. Therefore return restriction from Monday to Saturdays is either leaving after 12pm or arriving in London after 2pm and travel anytime on Sundays. Additonal restrictions for London Waterloo, Vauxhall and Clapham are between Monday and Saturday being not leaving between 4pm and 7pm (same as Super off Peak and not Off peak)

Have they finally made this information available publicly? I used SWR early last year and could find no explanation of this fare. In addition the booking demanded that a return train be specified. I just stuck with two advances as there seemed no point in paying more for what appeared to be an identical offering.

 

[AlbertBeale]

How curious. Where did you book the ticket?

At a (major station) booking office - not a SW Trains one, having had trouble getting what I wanted at the price I thought it should be when I'd tried previously at Waterloo. (The Waterloo problem possibly being because of a complication that my destination can be reached by two valid routings, with through tickets valid on one or the other only, at slightly different prices - and the lower-priced route I wanted might not be the default, and the ticket office person couldn't be bothered to fiddle around.)

The person who dealt with me at the station I did buy the ticket at seemed to have no trouble checking/comparing the price of doing the journey with two Advances, or with an off-peak return, or with a Semi-Flex at an intermediate price. Though the price I ended up being charged seemed to be nearer to the price of a pair of Advances than I expected, but with both tickets labelled Semi Flex (one date on the outward but a month's range on the return, as you'd expect), and with no specified train time on either ticket.

All very strange - but the best of all worlds as far as I was concerned...

 

[Timetraveller]

The restriction code on SWR Semi flex return is UE. This is in the public domain on national rail website. The SWR app will tell you the restrictions after you have purchased the ticket, if you select open return. Tickets are only valid on SWR trains unless ticket acceptance is in place for disruption.

 

[AlbertBeale]

The restriction code on SWR Semi flex return is UE. This is in the public domain on national rail website.

Indeed, I know - and the UE info says, for outbound, "booked train only"; which isn't the issue. What is the issue, and why I'm intrigued, is that the ticket has no booked train mentioned on it; and nor does it have something like "only valid with associated reservation ref no xxxxx" or anything like that (which sometimes happens where there's no room on the ticket to print all the info needed).

So there's nothing on the ticket to say that I shouldn't be on whichever train I get on; though nor is there anything to say that I am allowed on that train. So maybe a mixed blessing.

The SWR app will tell you the restrictions after you have purchased the ticket, if you select open return.

I don't have such an app - and anyway this is irrelevant to the issue I've raised.

Tickets are only valid on SWR trains unless ticket acceptance is in place for disruption.

Well - SWR trains and connections in some situations, to be exact. But yes, I'm aware that, in both directions, I need to use SWR (not that there are many relevant places - relevant to my journey at least - where there is a parallel service of another operator that would be available anyway). But again - none of this is relevant to the issue I raised at the outset.

 

[Starmill]

Indeed, I know - and the UE info says, for outbound, "booked train only"; which isn't the issue. What is the issue, and why I'm intrigued, is that the ticket has no booked train mentioned on it; and nor does it have something like "only valid with associated reservation ref no xxxxx" or anything like that (which sometimes happens where there's no room on the ticket to print all the info needed).

So there's nothing on the ticket to say that I shouldn't be on whichever train I get on; though nor is there anything to say that I am allowed on that train. So maybe a mixed blessing.

If you're concerned, I would try and arrive at the station a few extra minutes before your ideal service on the outward, show the ticket to a member of staff and ask if you can use it on the service you'd prefer to take. If they say yes, then you've been granted specific permission so the ticket would be valid on that ground as well as the fact that you presumably specified this train at the time of booking, but weren't given anything to state that on the ticket.

 

[Timetraveller]

It should print 3 tickets, outward with a reservation ticket (printed with journey time and date as booked train only) mandatory reservation with the ticket number and a return ticket if its a Credit card size stock. If you need to change the time earlier or later then it has to been refunded and booked with corrected time. Only excess is to full price off peak or super off peak return for the journey concerned.

 

[AlbertBeale]

It should print 3 tickets, outward with a reservation ticket (printed with journey time and date as booked train only) mandatory reservation with the ticket number and a return ticket if its a Credit card size stock. If you need to change the time earlier or later then it has to been refunded and booked with corrected time. Only excess is to full price off peak or super off peak return for the journey concerned.

Yes - the tickets are on normal [for many station ticket offices - and for me] CCSS.

As far as I'm aware, if there's information about being tied to a specific train and/or seat, and that information is on a separate "ticket" from the main one, then there is always a cross-reference on the main ticket to its validity depending on also presenting the accompanying reservation - which itself refers back to the ticket number. I've never seen any necessary extra ticket without an explicit note on the main one referring to it. (And surely this extra ticket usually only applies in the case of a seat reservation, not to just a specific train time - which would generally be on the main ticket. There's no seat reservation relevant here; SWR don't have them on any of their serices.)

In this case, there was no 3rd ticket supplied, and I wouldn't expect one since there's no such reference on the main ticket to one being required.

I don't need to change the time - I plan to travel at the time I specified when buying the ticket.

 

[Birmingham]

I've previously been sold an Advance on one coupon with just the origin and destination without any mention of the booked train(s), either on the same CCST coupon or another one. I went back to the station and they issued me a mandatory reservation coupon for the train I actually booked. The danger is that your ticket could be seen as invalid without anything specifying your booked train.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I've previously been sold an Advance on one coupon with just the origin and destination without any mention of the booked train(s), either on the same CCST coupon or another one. I went back to the station and they issued me a mandatory reservation coupon for the train I actually booked. The danger is that your ticket could be seen as invalid without anything specifying your booked train.

To round off the story ... this is what I did. To be on the safe side, I went to the office I'd bought the ticket from and said that I assumed there should have been a specific train reservation given on/with the ticket. They had a look, and weren't sure what had gone wrong (if anything). When I said what train I was intending to use, they just issued me with a free "seat reservation" (with no specified seat, of course, being SWR) for that train. Though there was nothing at all to link that reservation to the completely separate ticket - there was no sign that they'd put any reference to the ticket it was to go with on the reservation. So would it have really saved the day if I did encounter someone aware of, and wanting to fully enforce, the rules?

But, out of interest, I didn't offer that extra item when my ticket was looked at en route. (My ticket was inspected at several points on the journey, partly because there were changes involved, and partly because my ticket didn't always open barriers, and partly because of routine ticket checks on the train.) On none of these occasions did anyone show any interest in the fact that it should have an associated reservation [perhaps because nothing to that effect was explicitly said on the ticket of, course]; the most that happened was a quick glance at the route and date; and at one stage I got the impression it was a matter of "Oh, it's a piece of orange and white card; I'd better open the gate".

So the end result of this anomaly was that no-one would have minded if I had no reservation; and of course I could have used a train at a different time, with presumably a similar result.