Semaphore Signals

[grumpyxch]

Where they have or had semaphore signals, would somebody please explain to me what the difference is between a Home signal and a Starter signal. Physically they are the same, so it must be something to do with where they are positioned on the line and what their job is supposed to be. I know about upper and lower quadrants, I know about Distant signals. A Distant signal in the horizontal position means Proceed With Caution, whereas a Home or Starter signal in the horizontal position means STOP. I know about the difference in shapes at the end of the signal arm for a Distant as compared to a Home or Starter. Therefore, what makes a signal a Home, and what makes it a Starter?

Thankyou

 

[D6130]

In Absolute Block, tokenless block or token working areas - which are those in which semaphore signals are mainly used - the starter signal (or section signal as it is officially known nowadays) is the last signal controlled by a given signalbox to be encountered by a driver before entering the section ahead to next box. It's known as a section signal because it controls entry to a block section. Sometimes the signal at the end of a station platform may be colloquially referred to by station staff as the 'starter', but this is not always the case. For example, in a situation on a double line where there is a crossover beyond the platform 'starter', there will have to be another stop signal further in advance, to prevent trains which have crossed over from one line to another from entering the section when it is occupied. In such a case, the stop signals between the distant signal and the section signal will be known as 'Home 1', 'Home 2', etc. - depending on how many of them there are. The first (and sometimes only) home signal encountered by a driver after passing the distant signal, is so-called because it protects a train which is already in the station. Sorry if this sounds rather complicated....it's much easier to explain with the aid of a diagram, but I don't know how to append one here. If you can get hold of the book "British Railway Signalling" by G.M. Kitchenside and Alan Williams, it is well-explained in there, with clear and simple diagrams.

 

[Taunton]

In Absolute Block, tokenless block or token working areas - which are those in which semaphore signals are mainly used - the starter signal (or section signal as it is officially known nowadays) is the last signal controlled by a given signalbox to be encountered by a driver before entering the section ahead to next box. It's known as a section signal because it controls entry to a block section. Sometimes the signal at the end of a station platform may be colloquially referred to by station staff as the 'starter', but this is not always the case.

Actually that is the Starter, typically at the signal box, but there can indeed be one beyond, known as the Advance Starter, which handles any tracks joining beyond the Starter, and is the final authority to enter the next section.

Normally, if the train could not be accepted into the block ahead, it would be checked by the Distant, then the Home would be cleared when it could be seen the train could see it. This was the clue that the train was being pulled up at the Starter. If there was an Advanced Starter this was repeated. Sometimes there were multiple Home signals as well, known as the Outer Home and the Inner Home.

At Taunton, westbound in semaphore days, the Starter for Taunton West Station box was at the platform end. The Advance Starter was on the well-known gantry about a train-length beyond, and the Home for Taunton West Junction box about two train lengths beyond that. All three were visible from the platform.

I believe LMS/LMR nomenclature was different. The major Hawes Junction accident on the Settle & Carlisle was caused by letting light engines wait at the Advance Starter, which were forgotten about, so when all signals were cleared for a following express they just set off, but were overtaken shortly afterwards.

 

[OuterDistant]

Despite an interest in signalling from a young age, it took me a good while to understand the difference between distant signals, starting / section signals and home signals. As a guide, I came up with:

• Home signal: "You've made it through the section - well done, you're home!"
• Starting signal: "Wait here until you can start off into the section ahead."

The bit between the home and the starter - normally a few hundred yards or so - is where the signal box can usually be found, and is called "station limits", even though there might not actually be a station there.

However, once you introduce things like crossovers and sidings, things can get very complicated very quickly. Not to mention that at my local station, one direction has the station platform before the home signal, and some boxes down the line have no "home" as such and only the starter

 

[43066]

I was always taught distant and home signals, home being home one, home two etc. with the final home signal controlled by that box* being the section signal which controls access into the next block section from the station limits.

It’s essential to know which is the section signal because, if the distant for the first home signal controlled by the box is on, at least one of the home signals up until the section signal is also on, but you have no way of knowing which. Therefore home one and two could be showing green aspects, and you’d get no further warning of home three or section being at danger.

Starting signal, as far as I’m aware, is just a stop signal against which you start from a platform (obviously not all platforms have them), and is a TCB as much as an AB concept. I’m not sure if there’s an official definition.

*Unless there’s an intermediate block home signal in the next section, which would be controlled by the box in rear, released by the box in advance.

 

[Gloster]

A couple of points:

There are differences in nomenclature. For example, in the areas where I worked if there was more than one Home Signal, they would be known as the Inner and Outer Home. Despite what the rule book might say, practices dating back to the pre-grouping era continued.

There can be exceptions to most rules: I worked in one box where the crossover was in the section, there being only one Home and no Starter. I hope that this doesn’t complicate things, but there are plenty of occasions where the rules are adjusted to fit local conditions.

If the Distant Signal is at Clear it means that all the signals on the through route are at clear and the driver can continue to run at full speed. If the Distant is at Caution, the driver must be prepared to stop at the first Stop Signal (the outermost Home Signal).

 

[grumpyxch]

I've managed to get hold of a copy of the book that D6130 recommended (thankyou D6130), though the owner is having to post it to me so it will be a few days before I can read it. I suppose describing the signalling on a length of track that doesn't have any junctions, crossovers, sidings etc would be a lot simpler than something in the middle of Clapham Junction. I'll dive into this book with relish, and build up my knowledge gradually starting with simple track arrangements and progressing as they get more complex.

Many thanks to all. Regards

 

[thesignalman]

In Absolute Block, tokenless block or token working areas - which are those in which semaphore signals are mainly used - the starter signal (or section signal as it is officially known nowadays) is the last signal controlled by a given signalbox to be encountered by a driver before entering the section ahead to next box. It's known as a section signal because it controls entry to a block section. Sometimes the signal at the end of a station platform may be colloquially referred to by station staff as the 'starter', but this is not always the case. For example, in a situation on a double line where there is a crossover beyond the platform 'starter', there will have to be another stop signal further in advance, to prevent trains which have crossed over from one line to another from entering the section when it is occupied. In such a case, the stop signals between the distant signal and the section signal will be known as 'Home 1', 'Home 2', etc. - depending on how many of them there are. The first (and sometimes only) home signal encountered by a driver after passing the distant signal, is so-called because it protects a train which is already in the station. Sorry if this sounds rather complicated....it's much easier to explain with the aid of a diagram, but I don't know how to append one here. If you can get hold of the book "British Railway Signalling" by G.M. Kitchenside and Alan Williams, it is well-explained in there, with clear and simple diagrams.

This may help?:

The Basic Principles – The Signal Box

signalbox.org

John

 

[4F89]

Home signals let you into the station or signal box area (Station limits)
Starter or Section signals let you go to the next box or station
Distant signals being on means one or more of the associated Stop Signals is ON, prepare to stop at them. If Distant is OFF, all associated Stop signals are also OFF

 

[LowLevel]

I was always taught distant and home signals, home being home one, home two etc. with the final home signal controlled by that box* being the section signal which controls access into the next block section from the station limits.

It’s essential to know which is the section signal because, if the distant for the first home signal controlled by the box is on, at least one of the home signals up until the section signal is also on, but you have no way of knowing which. Therefore home one and two could be showing green aspects, and you’d get no further warning of home three or section being at danger.

Starting signal, as far as I’m aware, is just a stop signal against which you start from a platform (obviously not all platforms have them), and is a TCB as much as an AB concept. I’m not sure if there’s an official definition.

*Unless there’s an intermediate block home signal in the next section, which would be controlled by the box in rear, released by the box in advance.

The modern railway has largely chosen to abandon usage of the term "starter" but historically it was used until fairly recently to refer to a stop signal usually but not always in advance of the signalbox beyond the clearing point. Instead the modern railway just uses Home 1, 2 etc and Section. In the box itself the signal you think of as the section signal might actually be labelled "advanced starter".

Where your distants and repeaters really come in is knowing how far to which they refer, particularly with things like intermediate block sections - things like Langham's distant under Oakham's up section signal being important to read correctly using one from your area!

If you go past a distant at yellow, to comply with the regulations the signaller should clear each semaphore stop signal in turn as you approach once they are satisfied the train is under control and you've seen that the signal is on, thus hopefully preventing you being put into the situation of running on cleared signals and suddenly finding the section signal on. Clearing say two stop signals with the section signal still on would be cause for their manager to have words with the signaller as it's effectively a SPAD trap - whilst you shouldn't assume the signals are all off, the signaller shouldn't work in an irregular manner.

 

[matchmaker]

The modern railway has largely chosen to abandon usage of the term "starter" but historically it was used until fairly recently to refer to a stop signal usually but not always in advance of the signalbox beyond the clearing point. Instead the modern railway just uses Home 1, 2 etc and Section. In the box itself the signal you think of as the section signal might actually be labelled "advanced starter".

Where your distants and repeaters really come in is knowing how far to which they refer, particularly with things like intermediate block sections - things like Langham's distant under Oakham's up section signal being important to read correctly using one from your area!

If you go past a distant at yellow, to comply with the regulations the signaller should clear each semaphore stop signal in turn as you approach once they are satisfied the train is under control and you've seen that the signal is on, thus hopefully preventing you being put into the situation of running on cleared signals and suddenly finding the section signal on. Clearing say two stop signals with the section signal still on would be cause for their manager to have words with the signaller as it's effectively a SPAD trap - whilst you shouldn't assume the signals are all off, the signaller shouldn't work in an irregular manner.

The old Rule 39A.

 

[randyrippley]

Conceptually, is a starter signal the last in the section you're leaving, or the first in the section you're entering?

 

[Gloster]

I would not regard it as being in the section, as it gives entry to the section. A Home allows a train to leave the section. A section runs from the last Stop signal (the Starter or Section Signal, etc.) of one box to the first Stop Signal (Outer or No.1 Home Signal, etc.) of the next box.

 

[Taunton]

The modern railway has largely chosen to abandon usage of the term "starter" but historically it was used until fairly recently to refer to a stop signal usually but not always in advance of the signalbox beyond the clearing point. Instead the modern railway just uses Home 1, 2 etc and Section. In the box itself the signal you think of as the section signal might actually be labelled "advanced starter".

Where your distants and repeaters really come in is knowing how far to which they refer, particularly with things like intermediate block sections - things like Langham's distant under Oakham's up section signal being important to read correctly using one from your area!

If you go past a distant at yellow, to comply with the regulations the signaller should clear each semaphore stop signal in turn as you approach once they are satisfied the train is under control and you've seen that the signal is on, thus hopefully preventing you being put into the situation of running on cleared signals and suddenly finding the section signal on. Clearing say two stop signals with the section signal still on would be cause for their manager to have words with the signaller as it's effectively a SPAD trap - whilst you shouldn't assume the signals are all off, the signaller shouldn't work in an irregular manner.

I was given to believe that the old GWR managed this by installing far more combined distants and homes within station limits on the same post, so the driver continued to be reminded that entry to the next section was not clear. Certainly all the main line signals through Taunton in semaphore days were combined ones, where often three, or even more, were visible ahead, little more than a train length apart, and GWR signalling used more combined signals than others.

It was even more significant at night, when you might be presented with yellow-green-green-red. GWR would have yellow-green over yellow-green over yellow-red.

 

[30907]

I was given to believe that the old GWR managed this by installing far more combined distants and homes within station limits on the same post, so the driver continued to be reminded that entry to the next section was not clear.

Not sure I've come across this, except when there were successive boxes. They were generous with Homes, though.

Certainly all the main line signals through Taunton in semaphore days were combined ones, where often three, or even more, were visible ahead, little more than a train length apart, and GWR signalling used more combined signals than others.

Taunton had more than one box, though, so the distant would have been for West box under East's home (I know that's oversimplifying the layout!) because you would have to have the distant at braking distance).

Seeing Gloster's post below - yes, all East's Homes and the Starter would need to have West's distants below them, because the stop signals were inside the outermost distant for West.

 

[Gloster]

Looking at the signalling diagrams of the four main Taunton boxes on the Signalling Record Society’s site (a bit difficult as they blur when enlarged), and East Junction and West Station’s lever leads, it looks as though you had several Distants for the same box’s Stop signals. Basically, if the first was at Caution, the driver would start slowing, but later on he might see another one at clear and know that he now has a clear run. (An outrageous simplification.)

Put simply, a Distant never applies to any Stop Signal it shares a post with. It applies to the Stop signal(s) of the next box, or even the next but one or two in very congested areas. Drivers did have to know their signals: even an ex-signalman will admit that.