Semaphore Signals at Hastings?

[Chrius56000]

. . .Given that N.R. is life–extending many mechanical/electromechanical installations with replacement of semaphore/old multi–lens colour light signals by up to date modern replacements, does anyone know when the Semaphore Eastbound Starting Signals at Hastings will get the chop?

. . .Recent examples of mechanical installations being converted to colour light being :–

(I) Bridlington ;
(II) Knaresborough ;
(III) Ketton's L.Q. Starting Signal K14 now converted to colour–light ;
(IV) Harrogate due for the Semaphore Chop in due course !

. . .Some other South Coast examples I can think of still retaining semaphore–signalled mechanical installations that could be modernised to colour–light without necessarily needing complete re–signalling are Bognor Regis, Eastbourne and Littlehampton – have all the semaphores at Barnham gone yet?

 

[StanFromEccles]

I don't believe there's any plans yet but I could be wrong, I'd also imagine hasting's westbound home semaphores would also be included in said 'chop'.
Missed of off your list is Foley Crossing Home semaphores, All Knotty distants and Uttoxeter's semaphores.
Harrogate is happening over Christmas I've heard, just in case you didn't know.

 

[Chrius56000]

. . .I forgot about Foley Crossing as it's several decades since I was last on that line, but a Member did mention Uttoxeter (with some signal numbers) in the Ketton thread, which I forgot about in my list!

 

[Gloster]

I am pretty sure that both Barnham and Eastbourne have gone, though I haven’t visited the latter for quite a while.

 

[brad465]

I did a thread on semaphore survival a few months back, suggesting that semaphores will last longer than colour light signals with filament bulb heads, because a lot more work is required to remove a semaphore setup than just replacing a CLS with an LED signal setup.

Which will survive longest: the last mainline semaphore signal or the last filament bulb signal?

One would think semaphores would disappear before filament bulb signals on the basis that the former is older and the latter has more potential in terms of routing and line capacity enabled. However, there appears to be more work in replacing semaphores with any form of colour light (or a cab...

www.railforums.co.uk

I doubt Hastings ones though will be the last semaphores on the mainline to be decommissioned, more likely a remote branch line.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Hello @Chrius56000 this linked thread has some surviving examples.

Your photos of bracket semaphore signals stiĺl in use

During my whimsical West Coastway wanders, I have found a few bracket mounted semaphore signals still in use. I'd love to see your pictures, of bracket semaphore signals in use around the rail network. Examples: Bognor Regis, Littlehampton, Marchwood (former Fawley branch). One is a "pure SR"...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[zwk500]

I am pretty sure that both Barnham and Eastbourne have gone, though I haven’t visited the latter for quite a while.

Eastbourne apparently had it's semaphores replaced by colour-light in 1992! The last semaphores on the East Coastway proper went in the 2015 resignalling to the ROC, when Berwick, Polegate, Willingdon Jn, Eastbourne, Pevensey & Westham, and Bexhill boxes closed.

I think semaphores survived on the Newhaven/Seaford branch until the resignalling that facilitated the aggregates terminal on the former Newhaven Marine site in 2019.

I don't know if Bo-Peep Jn or Rye retain sempahores. Control of the East Coastway is now under the control of Three bridge ROC with TCB and Colour-Lights from Falmer/Cooksbridge to Bexhill. Three Bridges ASC controls the western ends, Bo-Peep Jn controls the junction with the Tonbridge-Hastings Line.

 

[brad465]

I don't know if Bo-Peep Jn or Rye retain sempahores. Control of the East Coastway is now under the control of Three bridge ROC with TCB and Colour-Lights from Falmer/Cooksbridge to Bexhill. Three Bridges ASC controls the western ends, Bo-Peep Jn controls the junction with the Tonbridge-Hastings Line.

Both of these no longer have semaphores.

 

[StanFromEccles]

Only semaphores in the south now include Marchwood, grain, Hastings, Bognor Regis, deal, Littlehampton and Ryde St John's. Shunt discs are still present at Canterbury west, Maidstone west and Dorking. There are signal boxes without semaphores at Sandwich, Minster, Robertsbridge, Rye, Bo-Peep, Arundel, Wateringbury, East Farleigh, Aylesford, Sturry, Reigate, Woking, Maidstone East, Charlton Crossing and Chichester.

 

[The exile]

I am pretty sure that both Barnham and Eastbourne have gone, though I haven’t visited the latter for quite a while.

Barnham went donkeys years ago now, I’m sure.

 

[Sun Chariot]

There are signal boxes without semaphores at Sandwich, Minster, Robertsbridge, Rye, Bo-Peep, Arundel, Wateringbury, East Farleigh, Aylesford, Sturry, Reigate, Woking, Maidstone East, Charlton Crossing and Chichester.

Plus Havant's now-closed box (pic attached); S&T nowadays controlled from its power box on the opposite (north) side of the line.

 

[FR510]

Only semaphores in the south now include Marchwood, grain, Hastings, Bognor Regis, deal, Littlehampton and Ryde St John's. Shunt discs are still present at Canterbury west, Maidstone west and Dorking. There are signal boxes without semaphores at Sandwich, Minster, Robertsbridge, Rye, Bo-Peep, Arundel, Wateringbury, East Farleigh, Aylesford, Sturry, Reigate, Woking, Maidstone East, Charlton Crossing and Chichester.

Cuxton still has a signal box too.

 

[steamybrian]

Only semaphores in the south now include Marchwood, grain, Hastings, Bognor Regis, deal, Littlehampton and Ryde St John's. Shunt discs are still present at Canterbury west, Maidstone west and Dorking. There are signal boxes without semaphores at Sandwich, Minster, Robertsbridge, Rye, Bo-Peep, Arundel, Wateringbury, East Farleigh, Aylesford, Sturry, Reigate, Woking, Maidstone East, Charlton Crossing and Chichester.

Suggest include Oxted and Tonbridge signal boxes without semaphores

 

[bluenoxid]

Harrogate is happening over Christmas I've heard, just in case you didn't know.

I wasn’t aware. Will the scheme have any impact on the two semaphore signals remaining in the Starbeck area controlled by Starbeck and Belmont Crossing boxes.

 

[skyhigh]

Knaresborough

Knaresborough's K9 semaphore was replaced with a colour light simply because the structure the semaphore was mounted on was becoming unsafe. Part of the subway was blocked off due to a temporary support structure.

Knaresborough still retains 2 semaphores (if you count a fixed distant as one) and 2 shunt discs.

 

[StanFromEccles]

I wasn’t aware. Will the scheme have any impact on the two semaphore signals remaining in the Starbeck area controlled by Starbeck and Belmont Crossing boxes.

Belmont I'm not sure, starbeck will lose its remaining semaphore. They'll all still survive just without semaphores, as network rail are working on life extension not outright replacement. Hope this helps.

 

[philthetube]

Are semaphores being removed because they are more expensive to maintain, because colour lights are easier for drivers to see of for other reasons?

 

[bluenoxid]

Belmont I'm not sure, starbeck will lose its remaining semaphore. They'll all still survive just without semaphores, as network rail are working on life extension not outright replacement. Hope this helps.

It’s really helpful as someone who uses the line as a passenger. The barrier down times for Starbeck High Street crossing are a talking point brought up on a regular basis so it would be interesting to see if there are any changes/improvements that might help but like for like is understandable.

 

[30907]

Are semaphores being removed because they are more expensive to maintain, because colour lights are easier for drivers to see of for other reasons?

Because of general resignalling (which generally reduces costs) or because they are in some way unsafe AND a like-for-like replacement (which has also been done in places) isn't the best option.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Because of general resignalling (which generally reduces costs) or because they are in some way unsafe AND a like-for-like replacement (which has also been done in places) isn't the best option.

Not sure at todays costs resignalling saves any money at all. Anyhow at Hastings being they are just the platform starters there's not a big benefit over lineside signals same goes for Littlehampton and Bognor. Im pretty sure all the rest of the signals in these areas have been converted to colour lights which are far more effective to trains travelling at speed over semaphores.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Only semaphores in the south now include Marchwood, grain, Hastings, Bognor Regis, deal, Littlehampton and Ryde St John's. Shunt discs are still present at Canterbury west, Maidstone west and Dorking. There are signal boxes without semaphores at Sandwich, Minster, Robertsbridge, Rye, Bo-Peep, Arundel, Wateringbury, East Farleigh, Aylesford, Sturry, Reigate, Woking, Maidstone East, Charlton Crossing and Chichester.

So Grain looks like the nearest remaining “arm on a stick” semaphore to central London?

 

[John Webb]

So Grain looks like the nearest remaining “arm on a stick” semaphore to central London?

No - the Dudding Hill Line from Cricklewood round NW London retains several manual boxes working semaphore signals.

 

[Sunset route]

Eastbourne apparently had its semaphores replaced by colour-light in 1992! The last semaphores on the East Coastway proper went in the 2015 resignalling to the ROC, when Berwick, Polegate, Willingdon Jn, Eastbourne, Pevensey & Westham, and Bexhill boxes closed.

I think semaphores survived on the Newhaven/Seaford branch until the resignalling that facilitated the aggregates terminal on the former Newhaven Marine site in 2019.

I don't know if Bo-Peep Jn or Rye retain sempahores. Control of the East Coastway is now under the control of Three bridge ROC with TCB and Colour-Lights from Falmer/Cooksbridge to Bexhill. Three Bridges ASC controls the western ends, Bo-Peep Jn controls the junction with the Tonbridge-Hastings Line.

Not to be too picky but it’s Hampden Park signalbox CDB not Willingdon Junction signalbox as Willingdon Junction signalbox closed several decades earlier with it area of control taken over by Hampden Park.

 

[matchmaker]

Stirling Middle had all its semaphores replaced by colour lights a few years ago and the points are all now power operated. All still worked from the frame (except the Alloa line which has its own panel).

 

[ex-probationer]

Barnham went donkeys years ago now, I’m sure.

The old Barnham mechanical box closed in Nov 2008 after the Barnham resignalling, when the new Barnham panel box opened.

 

[StanFromEccles]

So Grain looks like the nearest remaining “arm on a stick” semaphore to central London?

No, Ealing and Brent. I also think grain is losing them soon.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

. . .I forgot about Foley Crossing as it's several decades since I was last on that line, but a Member did mention Uttoxeter (with some signal numbers) in the Ketton thread, which I forgot about in my list!

Uttoxeter was the very last , brand new signalbox frame installed by one British Railways !

 

[steamybrian]

No - the Dudding Hill Line from Cricklewood round NW London retains several manual boxes working semaphore signals.

Also Greenford East signal box still has semaphores

 

[Gloster]

No, Ealing and Brent. I also think grain is losing them soon.

Nothing at Ealing: do you mean Greenford East? By Brent do you mean Dudding Hill Junction?

 

[StanFromEccles]

Nothing at Ealing: do you mean Greenford East? By Brent do you mean Dudding Hill Junction?

There are semaphores at Ealing, a few at Greenford and then one at Acton canal wharf. Brent also has Neasden, and the three Willesden boxes.