selling ac electrics abroad

[tadhatter]

With all the new electrified routes coming into play over the next few years (the spin off of which will almost certainly mean more lines getting ole) it strikes me as rather odd that we've sold off a load of 87s to Bulgaria and 86s to Hungary. Surely some use for them here could have been found?

Hopefully any potential sale of 90s, 91s and 92s will be scrapped and give them overhauls or rebuilds as required. For example there's plenty of freight that could have electric haulage along the London - south Wales route. And in a future CP perhaps the Merehead quarry trains currently operated by the 59s.

 

[DJH1971]

With all the new electrified routes coming into play over the next few years (the spin off of which will almost certainly mean more lines getting ole) it strikes me as rather odd that we've sold off a load of 87s to Bulgaria and 86s to Hungary. Surely some use for them here could have been found?

Hopefully any potential sale of 90s, 91s and 92s will be scrapped and give them overhauls or rebuilds as required. For example there's plenty of freight that could have electric haulage along the London - south Wales route. And in a future CP perhaps the Merehead quarry trains currently operated by the 59s.

I know some 86's went to Hungary and some 87's went to Bulgaria.

 

[edwin_m]

The wires from the east will finish at Newbury, tens of miles east of Merehead, so even with "last mile" diesel engines that flow won't go electric. I suspect also that 90s, and certainly 91s, would be pretty useless on stone trains as they are designed for higher speeds with much lighter loads.

 

[tadhatter]

The wires from the east will finish at Newbury, tens of miles east of Merehead, so even with "last mile" diesel engines that flow won't go electric. I suspect also that 90s, and certainly 91s, would be pretty useless on stone trains as they are designed for higher speeds with much lighter loads.

I was using the Merehead example of something that might happen in say CP7 and perhaps with 92s. There may well be further potential passenger usage along oher newly ectrified routes is what I'm supposing. Or a re-gearing, rebuilding of the 90s

 

[Loki]

We'd have the oldest fleet of electrics in western Europe if it wasn't for DRS. I'd rather see more electrodiesels than 90s overhaul. Surely a machine that can do last mile shunting off the wires is much more useful for replacing diesel traction. And we might yet see a TRAXX on MML....

 

[starrymarkb]

I think the only electric that could replace a 59 would be an IORE (Found in Sweden hauling 7000t of Iron Ore)

 

[sd0733]

The 86s and 87s were owned by the leasing companies. I think HSBC for 86s and Porterbrook for 87s. When they were sold I don't think there were any plans for electrification back then and as a business they saw more return in sellling them abroad than keeping them here, paying for storage costs at the same time, so as any sensible business would they sold an ageing asset. They would have been offered for lease/sale here too and I believe two 86s and two 87s were overhauled to UK spec for Europhoenix and there were very few (if any) takers and the 87s were exported with the rest eventually and the 86s stored.
Also by 2018 once any decent length of the new wires comes into play the 86s will be around 53 years old and the 87s about 45 so pretty ancient pieces of kit to run around with, yes there are diesels of a similar age but that's more to do with axle loadings and/or the new EU emissions causing issues getting new locos.

 

[DJH1971]

And don't forget about the Class 77 'Tommys' that went to Holland!

 

[D365]

And don't forget about the Class 77 'Tommys' that went to Holland!

No, EM2 (Class 77) were 1500V DC express passenger locomotives named after characters from Greek Mythology. It was the older mixed-traffic EM1 (Class 76) which were known as 'Tommys' after the prototype Tommy.

 

[DJH1971]

No, EM2 (Class 77) were 1500V DC express passenger locomotives named after characters from Greek Mythology. It was the older mixed-traffic EM1 (Class 76) which were known as 'Tommys' after the prototype Tommy.

Thought the EM2's were also nicknamed 'Tommys'?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

And don't forget about the Class 77 'Tommys' that went to Holland!

Though they don't apply to this thread title, being 1,500v DC...

 

[DJH1971]

Though they don't apply to this thread title, being 1,500v DC...

Perhaps slightly OT, but they were electric after all!

 

[plarailfan]

Sadly, all the new electrification does not seem to be much help to the freight companies.
For example, the Humberside docks, yards and terminals will be some distance from the forthcoming Trans - Pennine, Liverpool / Leeds / York wiring.
The Freightliner locations at Midland Road and Hunslet, will be around one mile from the wires, so I think pretty much, the only electric loco workings, will be railtours and charter trains.

 

[Strathclyder]

I think the only electric that could replace a 59 would be an IORE (Found in Sweden hauling 7000t of Iron Ore)

Wouldn't they be a bit too heavy for UK metals? Their total axle load is 30 tonnes.

 

[DownSouth]

A 1435mm gauge version of the Siemens E40 Bo-Bo-Bo loco could be a possibility with 450kN of tractive effort on tap.

These locos are quite gentle in terms of track damage and come with Locotrol III fitted as standard, so fitting them with taller gearing could be perfect for operating the heaviest UK trains with one loco at either end of the consist.

 

[455driver]

With all the new electrified routes coming into play over the next few years (the spin off of which will almost certainly mean more lines getting ole) it strikes me as rather odd that we've sold off a load of 87s to Bulgaria and 86s to Hungary. Surely some use for them here could have been found?

Hopefully any potential sale of 90s, 91s and 92s will be scrapped and give them overhauls or rebuilds as required. For example there's plenty of freight that could have electric haulage along the London - south Wales route. And in a future CP perhaps the Merehead quarry trains currently operated by the 59s.

Most of the 86/87s were withdrawn around about 2000-2002, what were they going to do with them between then and when they are needed again?
The stored 90s all have major faults (if its still in the bodyshell then its knackered was how they were described to me) and so would basically need a complete rebuild, why rebuild an old loco when its easier to buy a new one, especially if you need several locos.

 

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

But who actually wants new electric locos? DRS, Colas and GBRf have all recently (ie in the same period as the electrification plans were publicized) ordered new diesels. Only DRS have ordered electrics.

And given that DRS have chosen to meet their needs for future electric traction with a new build, I doubt anyone is regretting that a bunch of veteran electric locos were disposed of some years back.

 

[DarloRich]

With all the new electrified routes coming into play over the next few years (the spin off of which will almost certainly mean more lines getting ole) it strikes me as rather odd that we've sold off a load of 87s to Bulgaria and 86s to Hungary. Surely some use for them here could have been found?

Perhaps - but the owners (leasing companies) saw a commercial opportunity to off load redundant assets. They could earn some money in disposing of their asset at that point OR pay to store the locomotives in an ever decreasing condition whilst looking for non existent UK based work. Seems a no brainer to me