Selby Swing Bridge

[High Dyke]

The Hatfield Landslip thread has been getting a little off-topic to some point so discussion about Selby can continue here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-21298410

Commuter disruption as Selby swing bridge closes

Thousands of train passengers in Yorkshire will face disruption this summer as maintenance work is carried out on a swing bridge in Selby.

Train operator First Trans Pennine Express (FTPE) said the 160-year-old bridge "requires refurbishment and modernisation".

The repair work will take around two years, but the bridge will be closed for six weeks from 29 July.

Some services will be diverted via Goole, while others will be replaced with a bus service between Brough and Selby.

 

[snowball]

It's described in the film clip as a major rebuild. Does anyone know to what extent, if any, it's compatible with future electrification? Would that require an even bigger rebuild?

I believe the only electrified rail swing bridge in the country (or the only overhead electrified one??) is the one at Trowse, Norwich. That one is single track. Would double track create extra difficulties?

 

[eastwestdivide]

Can't see any particular difficulty with double track versus single - just use two overhead conductors (solid bar type), as at Trowse.

And, not a swing bridge, but the Kingsferry lifting bridge over the Swale on the line to Sheerness is a moving bridge on an electrified line. The trains just coast over, as there's no 3rd rail on the bridge I believe.

 

[IanXC]

Does anyone know to what extent, if any, it's compatible with future electrification? Would that require an even bigger rebuild?

I seem to recall reading that the bridge had clearance work for electrification undertaken during the ECML electrification. The work was done as at the time (prior to the Selby diversion the mainline passed through) but obviously the wires were never erected. I'd be astounded if these works removed existing clearances!!

 

[mm333]

Hull Trains have this http://www.hulltrains.co.uk/media/35046/selbyblock_advancenotice1_map_29july-08sept2013.pdf poster on their site now showing that HT and EC will going via Snaith.

First Hull Trains will operate DIRECT trains between Hull, Brough, Goole, Doncaster and London

East Coast will operate DIRECT trains between Hull, Brough, Doncaster and London

First TransPennine Express will operate trains between Selby, Leeds, Huddersfield and Manchester Piccadilly.

Northern Rail will operate trains between:
• Selby and Leeds
• Selby and York
• Scarborough, Bridlington, Beverley and Hull
• Howden and Hull
• Goole and Hull

Rail replacement buses will run between:
• Hull, Brough and Selby
• Hull and Leeds DIRECT Peak hours only – Monday to Friday
• Hull and York DIRECT
• Howden and Selby
• Goole and Doncaster
• Selby and Goole limited service
• Howden and Goole limited service

 

[yorksrob]

I'm rather disappointed that there will be no attempt to run at least some Leeds - Hull services via Snaith. I wonder will Leeds - Hull passengers will be allowed to travel via Doncaster, or whether we'll all be hearded onto the buses.

 

[IanXC]

I'm rather disappointed that there will be no attempt to run at least some Leeds - Hull services via Snaith. I wonder will Leeds - Hull passengers will be allowed to travel via Doncaster, or whether we'll all be hearded onto the buses.

I have to say I think the Hull Trains services via Snaith are going to be pretty rammed. In the current timetable there are well loaded Northern services to Doncaster and Sheffield via, but not calling at Selby. I'm wondering what will happen when these passengers all get on the Hull Trains service, let alone Leeds passengers too!

 

[yorksrob]

I have to say I think the Hull Trains services via Snaith are going to be pretty rammed. In the current timetable there are well loaded Northern services to Doncaster and Sheffield via, but not calling at Selby. I'm wondering what will happen when these passengers all get on the Hull Trains service, let alone Leeds passengers too!

I think that due to my extreme aversion to rail replacement buses, I will have to find a way to go via Donny for any up and coming Rugby matches, regardless of crowding issues !

It just seems a shame they can't find a an extra path via Castleford and Knottingley (although I'm aware that the reversal will make this tricky !)

 

[westv]

I guess I'll have to wait a little longer to see how this affects my regular Monday morning 05:20 NT Hull to Doncaster to get the EC service to London.

 

[mm333]

I've emailed Northern to see if they can extend their existing Goole-Leeds via Snaith trains to start in Brough (or Hull) to give at least one through train a day.

 

[PhilipW]

Update as of Monday 29 April.

Network Rail have just announced that the bridge repairs have been deferred
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...eferred-following-colliery-landslip-1d52.aspx

 

[yorksrob]

I've emailed Northern to see if they can extend their existing Goole-Leeds via Snaith trains to start in Brough (or Hull) to give at least one through train a day.

I'm guessing a lack of rolling stock might be an issue for them, although otherwise, that would seem to be a sensible strategy. TPE on the other hand are abandoning everything east of Selby, so rolling stock shouldn't be an issue.

Couldn't they either lend Northern some units and crews to run a through service, or alternatively couldn't they run it temporarily as a through service, or is it a case of joined up thinking being too difficult for them so just throw some buses on.

 

[dysonsphere]

Update as of Monday 29 April.

Network Rail have just announced that the bridge repairs have been deferred
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...eferred-following-colliery-landslip-1d52.aspx

My God some reality at last, was bound to happen eventually.

 

[yorksrob]

My God some reality at last, was bound to happen eventually.

Ah, hadn't noticed that. Seems a pragmatic solution.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Looking at the proposed works to be carried out on the bridge, which will be the major works in all the sections of this programme, as I am sure that all aspects of the structure will be looked at.

 

[IanXC]

The gradually declining Temporary Speed Restriction over the bridge has now reached 5mph!

I wonder how the decision to defer the works looks now - given the way the TSR has fallen over recent months, you do begin to wonder whether the bridge will make it till next summer!

 

[M60lad]

Do we know what the latest is regarding the swing bridge and when work possibly due to start? When I heard/read that it was going to be deferred I thought once the Hatfield problems were sorted then work on Swing Bridge would have started in earnest, I'm guessing its going to be next year now before works start and that's if the bridge survives that long

 

[yorksrob]

Since the Doncaster trains have their route back, it would be nice if TPE could use the paths to run some services via Knottingley, rather than shoving everyone on a bus and getting them there an hour late !

 

[IanXC]

Do we know what the latest is regarding the swing bridge and when work possibly due to start? When I heard/read that it was going to be deferred I thought once the Hatfield problems were sorted then work on Swing Bridge would have started in earnest, I'm guessing its going to be next year now before works start and that's if the bridge survives that long

My understanding is that the intention was to defer the work to the same time next year, the summer being the quietest point of the year. I suspect at least some temporary closures are going to be needed before too long though.

 

[loiner91]

I seem to recall reading that the bridge had clearance work for electrification undertaken during the ECML electrification. The work was done as at the time (prior to the Selby diversion the mainline passed through) but obviously the wires were never erected. I'd be astounded if these works removed existing clearances!!

Selby Swing bridge is after the Hambleton junction which connects the line to the east coast mainline. However, I heard they are going to electrify all the way to Selby because they want to run electric commuter trains on the line (faster acceleration means more space on the busy line with more direct TPE services to York in the future).

And conveniently later on, they can electrify all the way to Hull, which will allow also TPE to run electric trains to Hull also and it will allow Electric trains to run from London to Hull by the East Coast Mainline. But no plans for this yet but I bet they are going to do it anyway. If they do they certainly need to make some clearances on this bridge for the power lines.

 

[ainsworth74]

Since the Doncaster trains have their route back, it would be nice if TPE could use the paths to run some services via Knottingley, rather than shoving everyone on a bus and getting them there an hour late !

Though I suspect going via Knottingley would still leave everyone getting to Hull an hour late! It also depends on capacity of the track, isn't there a fair bit of freight floating around those parts?

Still I agree it would be preferable and there must be some reason why they didn't consider it as TPE have show quite a willingness to divert in the past (see Manchester to Edinburgh services diverted via Newcastle).

But no plans for this yet.

I wouldn't say no plans. Hull Trains are still (as far as I'm aware) pressing for their plan to wire to Hull in exchange for a long track access agreement. And even if that doesn't go ahead Hull will be a bolted on certainty for early CP6.

 

[yorksrob]

Just been over the bridge very slowly indeed. At least it gives a chance to study it a bit more closely than usual !
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Though I suspect going via Knottingley would still leave everyone getting to Hull an hour late! It also depends on capacity of the track, isn't there a fair bit of freight floating around those parts?

Still I agree it would be preferable and there must be some reason why they didn't consider it as TPE have show quite a willingness to divert in the past (see Manchester to Edinburgh services diverted via Newcastle).

I‘d forgive them the hour if they managed to keep me on train

 

[ainsworth74]

I‘d forgive them the hour if they managed to keep me on train

So would I to be honest

 

[IanXC]

Selby Swing bridge is after the Hambleton junction which connects the line to the east coast mainline. However, I heard they are going to electrify all the way to Selby because they want to run electric commuter trains on the line (faster acceleration means more space on the busy line with more direct TPE services to York in the future).

And conveniently later on, they can electrify all the way to Hull, which will allow also TPE to run electric trains to Hull also and it will allow Electric trains to run from London to Hull by the East Coast Mainline. But no plans for this yet but I bet they are going to do it anyway. If they do they certainly need to make some clearances on this bridge for the power lines.

Selby Swing Bridge is after Hambleton Junction when travelling from Leeds to Hull, however I was referring to the previous arrangement where the East Coast Main Line ran directly from Doncaster to Selby, across the Swing Bridge then via the now closed route through Riccall to Askham Bryan. This is a useful map of the "Selby Diversion" which was built to avoid the ECML being subject to subsidence in various coalfields (financed by the National Coal Board) http://www.flickr.com/photos/thanoz/6492117899/

The HLOS proposal indicates the funding is available within the proposed settlement for electrification to Selby, but its primarily an offshoot of doing Leeds to York, so as to enable Micklefield Junction to Hambleton West Junction to be electified which will provide an alternative electrified route for Doncaster to Leeds when the route via Wakefield is unavailable. It is suggested that this will have significant benefits to the East Coast franchise who won't have to do loco hauls so often, and mean their diesel (HST or IEP Bimode) fleets won't be so thinly stretched when there are works on that line.