Second generation DMU journey/challenge from Thurso - Penzance

[Bodie]

I've been trying to see if such a thing is possible.
Just using second generation DMUs.
My ideal is the whole journey to be completed using only 15X classes.

14X no longer in use.
165/166 I would class as second generation.
I'm not sure if 170s are classed as such. I don't count them as being so.
My rule is any DMU designed and built by BR.

Transport for Wales are the biggest stumbling block.

Travel from Thurso to Manchester is no problem.
1632 to Inverness (158) on a Saturday.
Resume Sunday with
1237 to Glasgow Queen Street (booked pair of 158s)
2205 Central to Carlisle (156)

Monday
0549 to Leeds (158)
0918 to Wigan Wallgate as far as Victoria.

Here TfW muddy the waters.
I could in theory get to Cardiff if I take a 150 or 156 from Piccadilly to Chester via Altrincham. Then later in the afternoon a 158 working from Holyhead to Cardiff. The 1433 from Holyhead. Except the 1433 I have seen on RTT down as a 150, a pair of 153s, a 150/153 combo, a 158 and worst of all for the challenge a 197.

The 197 is the enemy of this idea it seems to me. Just about everything run by TfW is or can be a 197.
I don't keep up with modern trains. Is the 197 fleet still being introduced?
Are all TfW long distance trains going to be either 197s or 67s?

There is a 1030 departure from Piccadilly to Cardiff that appears to be consistently worked by 158s.
Great but frustrating as the earliest you could get into Manchester is 1052.
A way round this is to have a later start in Carlisle and stay overnight in Manchester. Get the 1030 the next day.

My plan from Cardiff is to go via Salisbury. Ideally 158 but 165/166s do Portsmouths now. Then 159 to Exeter and 150 to Penzance.

I do believe it is possible.

What I really want help with is TfW diagrams. Are they as fickle as they seem to be or are there some pretty solid 15X diagrams.

Thanks

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

All Manchester - Cardiff and beyond diagrams are booked either for Class 197 DMUs or Class 67 + MK4 hauled sets, but here's the thing: the hauled sets are despicably unreliable at the moment, so at least one diagram is bound to be covered by a Sprinter.

The MK4 diagram including the 1630 from Manchester Piccadilly is currently short term booked for a double Sprinter.

You'll be pleased to know it's a pretty even 50/50 split between Turbos and 158s on Portsmouths now, so you'll easily find a 158. The issue will be a 150 to Penzance. They're only booked to do Exmouth Paignton, Okehampton and Cornish branches. There's like one 158 a day going into Cornwall, everything else is 43, 80x or 22x.

 

[Purple Train]

From Victoria, the 1530 to Carmarthen was today a single 158 (the Carmarthen services are usually 197s). Interestingly the 1630 that TT-ONR-NRN mentions is showing as operated by 67008. In checking RTT (usual caveats apply) I've never seen anything other than a 150 or a 158 on the 1030 (it was a 150 when I went on it, but the less said about that journey the better), except for today, when it was 197108. Overnighting in Manchester would also remove the early start from Carlisle; but it is rather fickle, yes.

Going by your alternative plan, you could (if you didn't overnight in Manchester) get the 1310 from Piccadilly (156460 and 156423 showing for today), and connect with the Holyhead-Birmingham International that seems to run every couple of hours. Unfortunately they leave just as the Mid-Cheshire services arrive, so you'd be left with an hour's wait at Chester (there are worse places to wait though!) for the 1536 - 158835 and 158825 showing today. That arrives at Shrewsbury at 1630.

The Holyhead-Cardiff Central is showing as 150255 today, so you could get that. Over the past week, it seems to have been a 150 on Monday and Thursday (Monday having a bonus of two 153s!), a 158 and Wednesday and Friday, and a 197 on Tuesday. It leaves Shrewsbury at 1716, so you could either get it if it's a tick or wait in Shrewsbury. If it is a Sprinter, you would be due into Cardiff at 1924. Whether you'll get there on time is another matter entirely. If the 1716 isn't a Sprinter, you could get the 1807 down the Heart of Wales line, which is always a Sprinter (150217 today), which gets in to Swansea at 2208. This then forms the 2230 to Cardiff Central, which arrives at 2339.

I believe the 16x and 158s on the Cardiff-Portsmouth work interchangeably. The 1130 from Cardiff Central was a pair of 158s today, but has been Turbos last week. That being said, if you jump on the first one you find, changing at Salisbury will always give you a 159 to Exeter St Davids, so that should be taken care of. Overnighting in Exeter would be a good plan...

Because there's a 0625 Exeter St Davids-Penzance that seems to be booked for a 158! That gets into Penzance at 0940.

So it definitely looks possible if you drag it out. If you go via the Heart of Wales I think it would be possible without taking any chances (I believe the Holyhead-Birmingham International services are booked 158).

Hope that helps!

 

[P281]

Based on RTT allocations from 20th November to Today, you could if you were really inclined to, do this. The bit I got stuck on was Glasgow, you could get a 158 to Anniesland and a 318/320 back to GLC

2H60 06:50 Thurso to Inverness (10:38) 158703

1B26 10:50 Inverness to Perth (13:00) 170405 and 158720

1T36 13:45 Perth to Glasgow Queen Street (14:54) 158713

Walk

1L73 19:13 Glasgow Central to Carlisle (21:39) 156494+156502

2H85 08:24+1 Carlisle to Leeds (11:07+1) 158754

1Y15 11:09+1 Leeds to Sheffield (12:06+1) 158786

1R66 12:43+1 Sheffield to Stockport (13:25+1) 158889

2D48 14:19+1 Stockport to Chester (15:37+1) 150109

1V97 16:23+1 Chester to Newport (19:06+1) 150258

1F33 20:44+1 Newport to Bristol Temple Meads (21:26+1) 165101

2C99 22:00+1Bristol Temple Meads to Exeter St Davids (23:46+1) 166201

2C04 06:25+2 Exeter St Davids to Penzance (09:40+2) 150243

 

[HST43257]

I think Cardiff towards Carmarthen services (plus heart of wales) are more likely 150s than substitutes on Manchesters.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I think Cardiff towards Carmarthen services (plus heart of wales) are more likely 150s than substitutes on Manchesters.

The Carmarthen services ARE Manchesters. The ones that terminate at Cardiff are way more likely to be a 150, as those are MK4 diagrams which have been hideously unreliable lately. The services going through to Carmarthen are booked 197 and usually actually are 197, although the booked Swanline 197 often produces a double 153.

But yes, a MK4 diagram is far more likely to produce a 150 than a 197 one.

 

[HST43257]

The Carmarthen services ARE Manchesters. The ones that terminate at Cardiff are way more likely to be a 150, as those are MK4 diagrams which have been hideously unreliable lately. The services going through to Carmarthen are booked 197 and usually actually are 197, although the booked Swanline 197 often produces a double 153.

But yes, a MK4 diagram is far more likely to produce a 150 than a 197 one.

I should clarify, I’m mainly referring to services like the Fishguards and other west wales services (of which some do exist) that don’t go through beyond Cardiff

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I should clarify, I’m mainly referring to services like the Fishguards and other west wales services (of which some do exist) that don’t go through beyond Cardiff

I see, but the OP would have no need for these on a journey to Penzance.

 

[HST43257]

I see, but the OP would have no need for these on a journey to Penzance.

I guess that depends on how much you bank on a 67 substitute, unless there’s another route I haven’t seen

 

[Anonymous10]

I guess that depends on how much you bank on a 67 substitute, unless there’s another route I haven’t seen

The Manchester to West Wales are all change at Carmarthen atm with 197s booked few sprinters in use on the route.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Can you get from Manchester to the West Coutry another way? I'm thinkung EMR Class 158 as a first leg to somewhere in the East Midlands, a Chiltern 165 from Birmingham to London, followed by a SWR Class 159 to Exeter. Is it possiblde to plug the gap between the east Midlands and Birmingham?

 

[EllieAquitrain]

Can you get from Manchester to the West Coutry another way? I'm thinkung EMR Class 158 as a first leg to somewhere in the East Midlands, a Chiltern 165 from Birmingham to London, followed by a SWR Class 159 to Exeter. Is it possiblde to plug the gap between the east Midlands and Birmingham?

Presumably you'd use buses (make sure no electric ones!) to get across Central London then? You definitely can't get between Marylebone and Waterloo using unelectrified tube trains!