Seating and comfort preferences

[jamiearmley]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/caf-civity-for-tfw.182501/

Regarding the seats, and this is only from personal experience, the ironing boards feel harder to sit on when upholstered in flat cloth, and softer when upholstered in moquette. I have wondered if it is because the moquette has more "give" in it.

Sadly, either way, the rough ride of the 195 units doesn't bode well for long journeys through the marches. The 195 seems to find reasons to jolt, hunt and rattle even on perfectly smooth continuously welded rail.

I will certainly be planning my journeys around the mk4 timings where possible, for reasons of comfort if nothing else.

 

[py_megapixel]

Regarding the seats, and this is only from personal experience, the ironing boards feel harder to sit on when upholstered in flat cloth, and softer when upholstered in moquette. I have wondered if it is because the moquette has more "give" in it.

Sadly, either way, the rough ride of the 195 units doesn't bode well for long journeys through the marches. The 195 seems to find reasons to jolt, hunt and rattle even on perfectly smooth continuously welded rail.

I will certainly be planning my journeys around the mk4 timings where possible, for reasons of comfort if nothing else.

It's hard to tell how much of that comes from the actual ride being rough and how much comes from jolts you wouldn't ordinarily notice because the seats are so hard. The ride of the 323s does seem much rougher now that the amount of padding in the seats has been slightly reduced in refurb so I suspect it's something to do with that.

Incidentally I simply cannot conduct a long journey in most of the 1980s DMU fleet in comfort. If I sit in the seats they are far too low to the ground and I end up with cramp in my legs (and in the case of airline seats the legroom is completely unusable); if I stand then I'm thrown around (Sprinters and especially Pacers are not well known for their ride quality). If it's a Pacer or a particularly dodgy 150 then be prepared to come out with sore ears too.

In the north, the Civities[*] are the lesser evil. Except where they replace 158s, in which case... what were they thinking?

[*] The 331s actually seem a little better to me than the 195s in this respect; maybe it's because they are largely replacing rather bumpy 323s[^] as it seems a little odd that they would ride differently! Incidentally the 331s have the best acceleration I've ever seen on heavy rail and is enough to throw you off your feet if you aren't used to it.

[^] What on earth is this, a footnote within a footnote?? Anyway, as an enthusiast I love the bumpiness of a 323, though I'm aware it's not ideal for the vast majority of people it's part of their character and I'd hate to lose it.

 

[hexagon789]

I understand TfW are investing £1.9 million or £2 million in more comfortable seats for the 197's put it that way.

If that's the case, it will be interesting to see what they chose given a TOC's idea of 'more comfortable' might constitute 1mm extra padding or something as daft

 

[jamiearmley]

In the north, the Civities[*] are the lesser evil. Except where they replace 158s, in which case... what were they thinking?

[*] The 331s actually seem a little better to me than the 195s in this respect; maybe it's because they are largely replacing rather bumpy 323s[^] as it seems a little odd that they would ride differently! Incidentally the 331s have the best acceleration I've ever seen on heavy rail and is enough to throw you off your feet if you aren't used to it.

[^] What on earth is this, a footnote within a footnote?? Anyway, as an enthusiast I love the bumpiness of a 323, though I'm aware it's not ideal for the vast majority of people it's part of their character and I'd hate to lose it.

Absolutely agree regarding the 331 ride quality, it is far better than the 195. Possibly less heavy stuff below the solebar? Although i really don't have that knowledge. Id say the ride on a 195 is marginally better than a 142, equal with a 144, and not as good as a 15x.

I like the 331 units. Im glad, as i spend a lot of my working day on them. Interestingly tho, i have had over the last year many, many passengers moan to me about them, preferring the 321/2 fleet they replaced. The gripes, in the main, were things you would only notice and compare if you were a regular, daily commuter, rather than a leisure traveller. A recurring theme is " feels like not enough air in carriage", and of course the rough braking and ride.

I think you are definitely onto something in that the cushioning aspect of the seating does directly impact upon the users experience of ride quality; but the absence of secondary suspension plays a big part as well.

I think we could have had much better units to improve upon the Pacers : less complexity and more quality : and ideally, a line should have been drawn, and a better approach used for Wales.

The proof will be in the pudding, as they say!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Regarding the seats, and this is only from personal experience, the ironing boards feel harder to sit on when upholstered in flat cloth, and softer when upholstered in moquette. I have wondered if it is because the moquette has more "give" in it.

I expect so, as I find the same thing of Fainsa Sophias.

 

[py_megapixel]

Absolutely agree regarding the 331 ride quality, it is far better than the 195. Possibly less heavy stuff below the solebar? Although i really don't have that knowledge. Id say the ride on a 195 is marginally better than a 142, equal with a 144, and not as good as a 15x.

I'd always pick a 195 over 15x because I simply cannot have a comfortable ride on a 15x at all for more than a few minutes. In my opinion a 195 is miles ahead of any Pacer; at least I don't get off it with a sore back!

150s are very rough in my opinion. They are also noisy.

I like the 331 units. Im glad, as i spend a lot of my working day on them. Interestingly tho, i have had over the last year many, many passengers moan to me about them, preferring the 321/2 fleet they replaced. The gripes, in the main, were things you would only notice and compare if you were a regular, daily commuter, rather than a leisure traveller. A recurring theme is " feels like not enough air in carriage", and of course the rough braking and ride.

If anything the 331s feel airier IMO due to less chunky fixings, bigger windows, and wide open spaces. Also unlike the 150s, 156s and 319s they don't get unbearably hot!

My main bugbear with them is that at every station the doors make that awful "BEEboop BEEboop BEEboop BEEboop BEEboop" noise for at least 5 or 6 seconds. It just gets on my nerves. What's that like to spend all day listening to?

 

[py_megapixel]

Incidentally I don't believe smoothness of ride has the impact that enthusiasts believe it does on the average passenger. I know various people who have done Windermere-Manchester on a variety of different stock. Shortly after the introduction of the 195s I asked them what they liked or disliked; nobody said ride quality was a problem, with the main cited complaints being poor signage of where the toilets are and also being noisy by modern standards. It's just not ready noticable unless you are thinking about it

 

[Pete_uk]

I remember the very nice pink seats Wessex Trains put in some 158s. Very nice.

 

[Railperf]

I don't see anything beating 'mallard' MK3 and Mk4 interiors for comfort.