Seatfrog

[voyagerdude220]

Hi all,

Does anyone have experience of using Seatfrog?

I do hold a Priv, but I'm planning on possibly buying a 7 day Standard all line rover and occasionally using Seatfrog to upgrade to First Class.

Cross Country have confirmed this is fine- are there any companies who forbid either the usage of a Priv or the 7 day all line rover from being used in conjunction with a Seatfrog First Class upgrade?

Does anyone know when Cross Country will offer Seatfrog upgrades for August?

Thanks!

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Permitted on all except Caledonian Sleeper.

Also remember to check specific train prohibitions/restrictions for staff travel facilities - not just the All Line Rover ticket restrictions.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Thank you.

 

[Spaceship323]

Thank you.

The upgrades are released by seatfrog as an auction approximately 24hours before boarding the train, you can buy an instant upgrade but that is a lot more expensive. It seems to me that if you don't bid enough for a long distance train then you won't win even though you are the only bidder, so I guess XC must set a minimum "reserve price". On the other hand I've done a short 20 mile trip and got an instant upgrade even though I only bid £7. With XC I always get upgraded on a 170, but never on a Voyager!

 

[Lemmy99uk]

Permitted on all except Caledonian Sleeper.

Also remember to check specific train prohibitions/restrictions for staff travel facilities - not just the All Line Rover ticket restrictions.

There are almost no restrictions now following the uproar when XC introduced a raft of them last year.

However, your post has got me wondering about first class restrictions. If a service was barred to first class priv and free travel, what is the position of someone on a standard priv with a Seatfrog upgrade?

 

[voyagerdude220]

The upgrades are released by seatfrog as an auction approximately 24hours before boarding the train, you can buy an instant upgrade but that is a lot more expensive. It seems to me that if you don't bid enough for a long distance train then you won't win even though you are the only bidder, so I guess XC must set a minimum "reserve price". On the other hand I've done a short 20 mile trip and got an instant upgrade even though I only bid £7. With XC I always get upgraded on a 170, but never on a Voyager!

I probably wouldn't run the risk of bidding- I'm debating whether to a long run on a Voyager, such as Aberdeen to Penzance or a slightly shorter one. Occasionally on dates where Seatfrog is available the buy it now First Class upgrade from Aberdeen to Penzance has been around £30 (but on other dates £95), which I think is incredibly good value for money.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

There are almost no restrictions now following the uproar when XC introduced a raft of them last year.

However, your post has got me wondering about first class restrictions. If a service was barred to first class priv and free travel, what is the position of someone on a standard priv with a Seatfrog upgrade?

As long as standard facilities aren't also barred, it is fine. The Seatfrog upgrade effectively converts the fare/PRIV into a public fare, which is why staff are able to have the full meal/refreshment service at no additional cost.

There's also some incorrect assumptions about how Seatfrog works on this forum.

1) There is no hidden reserve, the minimum bid that the app allows is essentially the reserve. You can't put in an amount lower than that anyway. There ARE hidden price points where your bid will automatically win before the auction has even ended (and still cost less than the guaranteed Upgrade Now option).

2) TOCs set up the geography of the upgrades in very broad terms, which at certain times of day, can mean Seatfrog is more expensive than an excess fare or other on-board upgrade offer. E.g. Avanti might band one Seatfrog minimum bid / fixed upgrade cost as London-Preston, but someone bidding from London-Milton Keynes would see the same fare. Generally shorter journeys aren't very good value.

3) TOC control rooms are able to remove upgrades/bids from sale or void existing bids - normally during service disruption or some unexpected event.

4) Specific seats are reserved in advance, for example on Avanti, you might have the same 2 x seats reserved from London to Glasgow, which Seatfrog will try and sell so that they are occupied throughout or as long as possible in the journey.

5) There is increasing concern about the legality of some of the Seatfrog practices, particularly adding in their booking/platform fee at the end, in addition to the bid amount. I suspect this will eventually get banned. The TOCs get the vast majority of the revenue, (they're not selling the seats to Seatfrog).

 

[Watershed]

There is no hidden reserve, the minimum bid that the app allows is essentially the reserve

Are you really telling me that a bid for £5 could go through for Aberdeen to Penzance?



I've heard several accounts of minimum bids being rejected so I would be very surprised...

5) There is increasing concern about the legality of some of the Seatfrog practices, particularly adding in their booking/platform fee at the end, in addition to the bid amount. I suspect this will eventually get banned.

Indeed. Drip pricing is unlawful and I hope they get raked over the coals for it.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Are you really telling me that a bid for £5 could go through for Aberdeen to Penzance?

View attachment 159739

Whilst I'd be very happy paying around £30 to upgrade on such a long journey, I'd feel stupid doing so if in theory I could have potentially won with such a cheap bid of £5/£10 etc.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Are you really telling me that a bid for £5 could go through for Aberdeen to Penzance?

View attachment 159739

I've heard several accounts of minimum bids being rejected so I would be very surprised...


Indeed. Drip pricing is unlawful and I hope they get raked over the coals for it.

Yes, a £5 bid can (and does!) go through if nobody else is bidding. The only time auctions are prematurely withdrawn is during service disruption, or at some TOCs, when a service is reported full and standing to their control. Alternatively if someone pays the fixed, immediate upgrade price - that will also cancel the auction (unless there's more seats allocated).

You have to remember that the bid is throughout the journey, so if someone bid £10 for Birmingham to Penzance on the same train, the £5 bid is not going to win, even if the customer is travelling Aberdeen to Derby.

 

[bkhtele]

But you may leave your bid to the last minute to avoid pushing up the price if bidding against a single person! Works well for me most of the time.

 

[RPI]

Hi all,

Does anyone have experience of using Seatfrog?

I do hold a Priv, but I'm planning on possibly buying a 7 day Standard all line rover and occasionally using Seatfrog to upgrade to First Class.

Cross Country have confirmed this is fine- are there any companies who forbid either the usage of a Priv or the 7 day all line rover from being used in conjunction with a Seatfrog First Class upgrade?

Does anyone know when Cross Country will offer Seatfrog upgrades for August?

Thanks!

https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/images/RST/RST_Restrictions_Summer_2024_v1.pdf is a link to the latest restrictions (it's a PDF so haven't copied and pasted the content). This lists the restrictions for each individual TOC and their restrictions on the use of seatfrog for staff. May be handy to download and keep with you

 

[voyagerdude220]

https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/images/RST/RST_Restrictions_Summer_2024_v1.pdf is a link to the latest restrictions (it's a PDF so haven't copied and pasted the content). This lists the restrictions for each individual TOC and their restrictions on the use of seatfrog for staff. May be handy to download and keep with you

Great, thank you!

 

[island]

Are you really telling me that a bid for £5 could go through for Aberdeen to Penzance?

View attachment 159739

I've heard several accounts of minimum bids being rejected so I would be very surprised...

It can if there's no other bids, albeit it'll be increased by 60% by the "platform fee".

 

[Adam Williams]

It can if there's no other bids, albeit it'll be increased by 60% by the "platform fee".

That sounds like "drip pricing" to me!!1

 

[WF4HA5HE]

Whilst I'd be very happy paying around £30 to upgrade on such a long journey, I'd feel stupid doing so if in theory I could have potentially won with such a cheap bid of £5/£10 etc.

You definitely can win upgrades for £5-10. Only a few weeks ago I bid for a midweek service between Wakefield-Edinburgh and won 2 upgrades for me and my friend for £20 total. (£7 per upgrade + £3 "platform fee")

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jun 2024 ==

You have to remember that the bid is throughout the journey, so if someone bid £10 for Birmingham to Penzance on the same train, the £5 bid is not going to win, even if the customer is travelling Aberdeen to Derby.

I find that even if you are traveling on a "quiet" portion of a long distance train the upgrade costs seems to be mucher higher then other services. For example I have tried a few times to get an upgrade between Inverness and Edinburgh on the highland chieftain which has plenty of first class seats free usually but because others may be bidding for the rest of the journey between Edinburgh and King's Cross the upgrades on that train go for £40-60 I see regularly. Despite as I said there are usually always seats available between Inverness and Edinburgh.

 

[kkong]

For example I have tried a few times to get an upgrade between Inverness and Edinburgh on the highland chieftain which has plenty of first class seats free usually but because others may be bidding for the rest of the journey between Edinburgh and King's Cross the upgrades on that train go for £40-60 I see regularly. Despite as I said there are usually always seats available between Inverness and Edinburgh.

It wouldn't make sense to bid more than £32 on Seatfrog, given that you can upgrade on board for £35 for Inverness to Edinburgh.

Weekday Super Off-Peak trains are:
Southbound: Trains arriving into London or Stevenage after 11:17 Monday to Friday.

 

[WF4HA5HE]

It wouldn't make sense to bid more than £32 on Seatfrog, given that you can upgrade on board for £35 for Inverness to Edinburgh.

Oh I didn't realise that was available mid week. Thanks!!

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Oh I didn't realise that was available mid week. Thanks!!

It is wholly discretionary and you need to enquire with the Train Manager prior to sitting there, and given the Inverness service is extremely popular, I wouldn't bet on it always being offered. At least with Seatfrog, if you upgrade, it's guaranteed with a specific seat.

 

[kkong]

It is wholly discretionary and you need to enquire with the Train Manager prior to sitting there, and given the Inverness service is extremely popular, I wouldn't bet on it always being offered. At least with Seatfrog, if you upgrade, it's guaranteed with a specific seat.

I find it is very rarely the case that 1st class is fully occupied between Inverness and Edinburgh.

I've not seen the upgrade on board being refused to anyone who has asked.

 

[island]

I find it is very rarely the case that 1st class is fully occupied between Inverness and Edinburgh.

I've not seen the upgrade on board being refused to anyone who has asked.

Likewise.

 

[MrJeeves]

There ARE hidden price points where your bid will automatically win before the auction has even ended (and still cost less than the guaranteed Upgrade Now option).

As a good example of this:

Instant upgrade was £30 + platform fee, while I instant won with a bid for £13 + fee for a ~9am departure from London tomorrow...

 

[Spaceship323]

As a good example of this:

Instant upgrade was £30 + platform fee, while I instant won with a bid for £13 + fee for a ~9am departure from London tomorrow...

/View attachment 161383

Yes I've just got an instant upgrade from Nuneaton to Stanstead airport for £9, the "buy it now"upgrade was £45!

 

[redreni]

I didn't only cost £13, though, did it?

 

[SickyNicky]

Yes I've just got an instant upgrade from Nuneaton to Stanstead airport for £9, the "buy it now"upgrade was £45!

You'll be lucky to get those seats from Nuneaton to Stansted Airport, of course

 

[Spaceship323]

You'll be lucky to get those seats from Nuneaton to Stansted Airport, of course

No, there's usually plenty of seats free in first. I always get an upgrade now as being disabled I can't stand if the train is packed (I go to Leicester every week)

 

[NER1621]

It wouldn't make sense to bid more than £32 on Seatfrog, given that you can upgrade on board for £35 for Inverness to Edinburgh.

“EBay madness” is a recognised thing (people getting caught up in the frenzy of an auction and losing sight of the actual value of the item being bid for.) To which we may add “Seatfrog madness”: thought I’d low-ball a £13 upgrade bid for a trip tomorrow late morning on the semi-fast from Darlington to Peterborough: not surprised to be outbid but not that bothered as it’s only 1hr 45, but astonished to find the biding is now up to £61+fee when the onboard upgrade would only be £45. (Obviously those bids will be from people doing the full journey.)

 

[Kite159]

“EBay madness” is a recognised thing (people getting caught up in the frenzy of an auction and losing sight of the actual value of the item being bid for.) To which we may add “Seatfrog madness”: though I’d low-ball a £13 upgrade bid for a trip tomorrow late morning on the semi-fast from Darlington to Peterborough: not surprised to be outbid but not that bothered as it’s only 1hr 45, but astonished to find the biding is now up to £61+fee when the onboard upgrade would only be £45. (Obviously those bids will be from people doing the full journey.)
View attachment 161948

Both times I've used Seatfrog at weekends the auction price went above the price of the weekend first. Something like £60 for Inverness to London (£45 on board) & £28 for a TPE from Manchester to Edinburgh (£20).

 

[ricoblade]

“EBay madness” is a recognised thing (people getting caught up in the frenzy of an auction and losing sight of the actual value of the item being bid for.) To which we may add “Seatfrog madness”: though I’d low-ball a £13 upgrade bid for a trip tomorrow late morning on the semi-fast from Darlington to Peterborough: not surprised to be outbid but not that bothered as it’s only 1hr 45, but astonished to find the biding is now up to £61+fee when the onboard upgrade would only be £45. (Obviously those bids will be from people doing the full journey.)
View attachment 161948

Hence my suspicion that it's not a real auction but a revenue maximising exercise. i given up on it as it now feels like a scam.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

There is no scam - Weekend First is not the same as Seatfrog - the main issue being a guaranteed seat reservation. Perhaps some forum members do not appreciate how busy LNER first class is these days. Weekend First is subject to availability.

There are also various Seatfrog vouchers, prizes and promos which people are able to obtain, so they aren't necessarily paying the full bid price.

As I've explained repeatedly, some of the Seatfrog pricing is intended to deter it's use for shorter journeys. Bidding £50 for A-B might not be a bargain, but if the same pricing applies for A-Z, you've got a real deal. The pricing is not granular like rail tickets, its the same bid whether you do London to Inverness or Peterborough to Grantham (although there can be a bit of configuration, but the concept is broad geographic areas).

It's also market forces at play - clearly shows that certain products are underpriced and people are prepared to pay more. Perhaps you wouldn't pay the amount, but that's not to say others won't.