Seat reservations with PRIV (FGW said no)

[James Wake]

Hi all,
I'm asking this question on behalf of my manager, who has booked a Priv 1st Open Return at approx. £17.85 from London Liverpool St to Norwich to go up this Friday (27th) and return Sunday (29th), he would like to use the 1330 service up on Friday and 1100 service back on Sunday. He bought the ticket without a problem at Swindon booking office, but the clerk said they were not allowed to do reservations, how can he get some reservations, or is it not worth the hassle, based on people's experiences with these two particular services?
Many thanks in advance
James

 

[greatkingrat]

I don't think you can have reservations with Priv tickets as you are supposed to give priority to normal passengers.

In practice, it seems very unlikely that First class will be anywhere near full on those trains so I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Greenback]

I think that's correct, no reservations with a Priv, sorry.

 

[James Wake]

Thank you greatkingrat and Greenback for your helpful advice, I will pass this on.
James

 

[yorkie]

Is it the case that people holding 'PRIV' discounted tickets should actually give up their seat if the train is busy?

I've heard people use the argument that, while they'd happily do that if on a free 'box', because they are in possession of a ticket, albeit a discounted one, they should have the same 'rights' as anyone else in possession of a ticket? Is that definitely not the case?

 

[Deerfold]

Is it the case that people holding 'PRIV' discounted tickets should actually give up their seat if the train is busy?

Unless they have trouble standing, yes.

I've heard people use the argument that, while they'd happily do that if on a free 'box', because they are in possession of a ticket, albeit a discounted one, they should have the same 'rights' as anyone else in possession of a ticket? Is that definitely not the case?

My ticket is issued on similar terms to PRIV (It's printed as PRIV but my documentary proof is not a PRIV card and so is only accepted by one TOC). My terms and conditions are certainly that I must stand if there are not enough seats available. I rarely have to. Reservations are strictly not available with my ticket.

 

[causton]

Meanwhile I have been told that I can issue seat reservations to any person with a PRIV and have heard nothing of the sort!

My pass or PRIV does not say anything specific about it AFAIK but I will, particularly on my pass, stand if needed; more out of courtesy than anything official!

 

[Deerfold]

ATOC's list of restrictions for PRIV holders is here:

http://www.atoc.org/download/clientfiles/files/Winter 2014-2015 Restrictions Booklet.pdf

Althogh there is no overall restriction. most TOCS specify something along the lines of:

On all other Abellio Greater Anglia services, holders of First and Standard
Class free and privilege travel facilities are asked only to occupy seats
that are not required by fare-paying passengers. If at any point during
the journey seats become required by fare-paying passengers, staff are
requested to vacate them immediately. This ruling does not apply to
retired staff.

and

There are no restrictions to users of free and privilege rate travel
facilities on East Coast services. However, please observe the
following:
2. On all East Coast trains, fare-paying passengers should
be allowed to occupy their choice of seats first.
3. Active staff and dependants must not make First Class seat reservations on any East Coast trains, Mondays to Fridays.

 

[Sleepy]

I think you will find it is due to 1st class off peak AGA fares being set up not to allow reservations, this was introduced to stem the tide of " no shows" (and will not mess up Advance quota' s) 98% of services always have at least a handful of empty seats in 1st.

 

[Deerfold]

I think you will find it is due to 1st class off peak AGA fares being set up not to allow reservations, this was introduced to stem the tide of " no shows" (and will not mess up Advance quota' s) 98% of services always have at least a handful of empty seats in 1st.

I'm not sure what you mean.

AGA's restrictions apply to First and Standard, and as I've mentioned most, if not all, TOCs have similar restrictions.

 

[Sleepy]

I'm not sure what you mean.

AGA's restrictions apply to First and Standard, and as I've mentioned most, if not all, TOCs have similar restrictions.

Only mean that reservations cannot be issued against 1st class off peak tickets on Norwich to Liverpool St. Flow for public rate - Priv has no bearing on this (TIS have been set up this way). I have obtained reservations with Priv tickets on various other TOC. many times.

 

[Deerfold]

I have obtained reservations with Priv tickets on various other TOC. many times.

In practice I'm not suprised, but many TOCs seem not to be keen on it.

 

[Greenback]

I'm sure FGW used to tell us that Priv tickets and reservations were mutually exclusive!

I used Priv tickets a lot during my railways employment, and I never got a seat reservation. I always understood that 'ordinary' passengers had priority for seats, and while I don't recall ever seeing anything about giving up a seat for another passenger, I was always prepared to do so when I used the busier services between Norwich and London, for example.

 

[janb]

We've always issued reservations to PRIVs if asked for.

As someone else says as it happens the First Off Peak London to Norwich is set up in Journey Planner to prevent booking seats for anyone regardless of PRIV (of course you just book seats separately against the Anytime ticket if you really want them).

 

[Shaggy]

I would say there's a difference between "pass" travel and "priv" travel.

If I'm travelling on my staff pass (as in for free) then I always give up my seat if required for another passenger. Indeed the terms of issue compel me to do so.

Certainly to me, Priv travel is a little different. Earlier this year, I was travelling on a Priv on East Coast where alas the train was delayed by over an hour. Dutifully, the guard came round offering refund forms. When she came to me I simply said "thank you but no thank you as I'm travelling on a Priv". What followed was a friendly lecture how Priv tickets are just as valid as any other, simply that they have been discounted for staff travel. The NCOC applies in exactly the same format (unless otherwise stated in ATOC restrictions). Furthermore, my wife and I should send our Priv tickets in for refund. Not wanting to argue with this guard, I did so and received a few weeks later a welcome pair of rail vouchers.

It all depends. If I'm travelling with my wife then I will happily reserve seats (I do not want her to stand). I am yet to be told I am wrong for doing so by a guard. However if I am on my own then I won't and will happily stand aside for a full-fare paying passenger.

 

[Seaeagle]

Just been down to Leamington Spa to get tickets for a trip to Southampton this weekend, purchased the tickets no problem but the bloke in the booking office said that I couldn't reserve seats as I was travelling on a discounted priv ticket! Never had any trouble reserving seats on this route or any other before. Can anyone advise if he is correct? Thanks

 

[First class]

Just been down to Leamington Spa to get tickets for a trip to Southampton this weekend, purchased the tickets no problem but the bloke in the booking office said that I couldn't reserve seats as I was travelling on a discounted priv ticket! Never had any trouble reserving seats on this route or any other before. Can anyone advise if he is correct? Thanks

Technically you are supposed to give the public the first choice of seats, and give up your seats to full fare paying customers.

Reservations aren't prohibited (except on Sleepers and First Hull Trains), but they do come with the above proviso.

Just ring CrossCountry telesales or any TOC and tell them you want to make seat reservations for tickets already held.

 

[yorkie]

Can anyone advise if he is correct?

http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-staff-travel/restrictions/
XC say:

Active staff holders of National Rail Standard travel facilities are requested to vacate their seats if fare-paying customers are standing

So, even if you got a reservation, it wouldn't be technically usable unless the train was quiet enough for the reservations to be pointless anyway.

In practice, such restrictions are not always adhered to, nor enforced. Some staff may enforce such restrictions but I believe most do not.

 

[Alan.w]

Technically you are supposed to give the public the first choice of seats, and give up your seats to full fare paying customers.

Reservations aren't prohibited (except on Sleepers and First Hull Trains), but they do come with the above proviso.

Just ring CrossCountry telesales or any TOC and tell them you want to make seat reservations for tickets already held.

I am sure i saw somewhere about giving your seat up but it did not apply to retired PRIV holders, but may have dreamt it

 

[Flamingo]

I am sure i saw somewhere about giving your seat up but it did not apply to retired PRIV holders, but may have dreamt it

That's correct. You were not imagining it.

 

[Alan.w]

That's correct. You were not imagining it.

Another advance of being old then Thanks LOL

 

[Deerfold]

I am sure i saw somewhere about giving your seat up but it did not apply to retired PRIV holders, but may have dreamt it

In post number 8, perhaps?

 

[Mag_seven]

The ATOC TOC by TOC restrictions guide referred to tells you all you need to know about any rules regarding "giving up seats", "seat reservations" etc using PRIV on the TOC concerned.

 

[Deerfold]

The ATOC TOC by TOC restrictions guide referred to tells you all you need to know about any rules regarding "giving up seats", "seat reservations" etc using PRIV on the TOC concerned.

The one I linked to in post number 8? That is a popular post tonight.

 

[Mag_seven]

The one I linked to in post number 8? That is a popular post tonight.

Sorry I should have stated, "referred to IN POST 8".