Seat reservations unavailable

[skyhigh]

I'm trying to book a ticket from St Albans to Maidenhead on Saturday 2 April, but when I try to reserve a seat I get the message "Coach: * Seat: *** - You have reserved a place on this specific service, but individual seat reservations are not possible." on the GWR website, or "Reserved - no seat allocated" with Virgin Trains.

Am I doing something wrong, or are reservations not available? It doesn't seem to be tied to a particular train and I didn't think it was possible to reserve a place on a service without a seat reservation as reservations aren't compulsory!

I looked yesterday and managed to get a seat reservation (on the same train) but didn't end up buying the ticket then... I suspect I've missed out, but if anyone can enlighten me otherwise that would be great!

 

[dquebec]

Specific seat reservations are not available, so you sit (or stand!) anywhere, but you MUST get the specific trains (and specific connecting legs if applicable).

 

[Paul Kelly]

but you MUST get the specific trains (and specific connecting legs if applicable).

Only relevant for advance fares, of which there are none between St Albans and Maidenhead.

 

[Haywain]

Seat reservations are not available on any services from St Albans into London, and will not be available on the majority of services from Paddington to Maidenhead. So, no Advance fares and no reservations - just buy a ticket!

 

[skyhigh]

I've tried GWR web support, and to be honest it's confused me even more! As far as I can tell, it's an HST I'm trying to get on so there should be seat reservations...

GWR: Good evening and welcome to Live Chat, how can I help you?

Me: Hi, I'm trying to book a ticket from St Albans to Maidenhead on Saturday, but when I try to reserve a seat I get the message 'You have reserved a place on this specific service, but individual seat reservations are not possible.' - is it true that seat reservations aren't available?

GWR: I'm sorry, the message is confusing but it does not mean what you think, you have a reservation however it will not provide you a specific seat number, what would happen is you'll have a reservation with a **** seat reservation on it. This defines that you have a seat on that train just not a specific one. Only the set amount of seats available would be sold to passengers like that and you would have one of those seats.

Me: OK, so how would I know which seat is mine? Or is it the case that no more tickets are sold than seats on the train?

GWR: No more reservations are sold then seats available. You can sit in any seat.

Me: But surely if more tickets without reservations are sold than seats, there's not a guarantee that I'll get a seat?

GWR: But you would have a reservation stamp to say that you have a seat, while someone else would not.

Me: So someone without one could be asked to move?

GWR: Yes.

So I'll get a blank reservation, which I can use to ask anyone without one to move?! To be honest if someone came up to me with a blank reservation and asked me to move I'd be slightly dubious, to say the least. The reason I'm trying to get a reservation is that I currently can only stand for a short period of time but look perfectly able-bodied, so I'm trying to make my journey as easy as possible for myself!

Seat reservations are not available on any services from St Albans into London, and will not be available on the majority of services from Paddington to Maidenhead. So, no Advance fares and no reservations - just buy a ticket!

Thanks for that, I'm just confused as to why I could have got one yesterday but not today - if most trains don't have them I'll just have to make do

 

[Bletchleyite]

"GWR" is wrong. These reservations, if you would call them that, should not be issued with anything other than Advance fares. It seems the system is a bit broken and is issuing them with walk-ups.

Seat reservations are not available for your journey on the vast majority of trains - if you can't stand, head for the priority seating and explain to those sitting in it why you need it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As for it being an HST - is it an Oxford one? Are reservations taken on all of those?

 

[skyhigh]

"GWR" is wrong. These reservations, if you would call them that, should not be issued with anything other than Advance fares. It seems the system is a bit broken and is issuing them with walk-ups.

Thanks, I was beginning to suspect that was the case - although I did take a screenshot yesterday when I was planning which suggested that I'd got a specified seat (coach C, seat 33). When I try the same train today I don't get anything - maybe I just happened to pick one of the few trains with reservations, and they've all been taken?

As for it being an HST - is it an Oxford one? Are reservations taken on all of those?

Yes, it is an Oxford one. Checking, yes I can buy a ticket from Paddington to Oxford and get a reservation (coach C, seat 33 - strangely enough).

Edit: No, it's a Hereford one, I misread it!

 

[Andrewlong]

I suspect the train you will be catching will be a class 180. HSTs tend not to stop at Maidenhead and you can't reserve a seat on a DMU I imagine.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd expect they are probably all taken, in that case.

In reality I would not expect those trains to be that busy on a Saturday.

 

[ScotTrains]

Is there a good reason why train companies can reserve you a place but not a seat? Scotrail's new advance fares do just this and create a lot of complaints and confusion. Why can't they just reserve passengers a seat until all the reservable seats are taken, after which point don't issue any more advance tickets? Am I missing something here?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there a good reason why train companies can reserve you a place but not a seat? Scotrail's new advance fares do just this and create a lot of complaints and confusion. Why can't they just reserve passengers a seat until all the reservable seats are taken, after which point don't issue any more advance tickets? Am I missing something here?

It's to allow Advance tickets to be issued on nonreservable trains, primarily[1]. It seems a few gremlins are creeping in; counted place reservations should never be issued to walk-up ticket holders as they have no meaning.

[1] e.g. LM, who don't do reservations. When they tried, it didn't work, as their turnarounds at Euston are too short to keep the commuters (who know the regular platforms) back while they are placed, and it just caused arguments.

 

[Sacro]

I suspect the train you will be catching will be a class 180. HSTs tend not to stop at Maidenhead and you can't reserve a seat on a DMU I imagine.

180s are DMUs.

Aside from the sleeper, everything GWR run is a DMU (technically a HST is a DEMU but close enough)

 

[Mojo]

It's to allow Advance tickets to be issued on nonreservable trains, primarily[1]. It seems a few gremlins are creeping in; counted place reservations should never be issued to walk-up ticket holders as they have no meaning.

[1] e.g. LM, who don't do reservations. When they tried, it didn't work, as their turnarounds at Euston are too short to keep the commuters (who know the regular platforms) back while they are placed, and it just caused arguments.

I think this is just a side effect of the system of counted place reservations rather than a "gremlin" as you put it. Whenever booking a walkup on a train with "fake" reservations I have always been issued a meaningless reservation coupon.

It appears the system just isn't designed for it, and this is effectively a "hack" to ensure that they can control the quota on trains that are otherwise unreservable. If you go on journey planners and search for a journey on a train with only counted place reservations, you will still get the diamond symbol to indicate that reservations are available, even though as far as the customer is concerned they cannot reserve a seat.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The "seat * coach *" reservation is a counted place reservation.

You wouldn't normally see counted place reservations on a service which carries real reservations. Counted place reservations are for trains where the TOC wants to sell Advance tickets for their service, but can't (or won't) do real reservations. The ticket is simply a way of allowing the system to specify which train you must catch.

If you buy online you may get a counted place reservation with a walk up ticket. This is because the system can't tell the difference between counted place reservations and real reservations, meaning it thinks trains with counted place reservations actually have reservations available. Neil Williams is wrong, you can (and I have) received counted place reservations with walk up tickets.

The counted place reservation does not guarantee you a seat on the train. It is simply a way of the system stating which train you must catch with an Advance ticket. Trying to turf someone out of a seat because of your counted place reservation is not going to be productive.

 

[ScotTrains]

Scotrail's £5 advance fares don't come with seat reservations, but their next advance fare tiers do come with seat reservations. So basically if you pay a few pounds more you can get a seat reserved. It seems bizarre.

 

[skyhigh]

The counted place reservation does not guarantee you a seat on the train. It is simply a way of the system stating which train you must catch with an Advance ticket. Trying to turf someone out of a seat because of your counted place reservation is not going to be productive.

Thanks for your help - I wasn't planning to try turfing someone out of a seat, I was very surprised for them to suggest that! I went to the station in the end to get the ticket and asked about the counted place reservations. The seller looked on his system and said it was indeed possible to get a proper reservation. I was asked where I'd like to sit (aisle, window etc) and after a while of clicking he apologised and duly issued me with a reservation for coach * seat ***

 

[Romilly]

Scotrail's £5 advance fares don't come with seat reservations, but their next advance fare tiers do come with seat reservations. So basically if you pay a few pounds more you can get a seat reserved. It seems bizarre.

And to add to the confusion, I often find that although the Virgin Trains East Coast journey planner has loaded the Scotrail £5 fares, the loading has gone wrong because the VTEC planner thinks that there are no counted-place reservations left on a particular train, even though I can then log in straightaway to the Scotrail journey planner and buy the very same £5 ticket with a counted-place reservation. I can accept that VTEC are probably not losing much revenue by my not buying one of those £5 tickets from them, but it is the sort of petty annoyance that eventually causes customers to switch to buying the bulk of their tickets from a different site.

By way of comment on ScotTrains' point, I think it depends on the train concerned (perhaps how long-distance it is): on one particular Scotrail route that I use from time to time, sometimes the non-£5 Advances come with seat reservations and sometimes with counted-place reservations - I think that correlates with the stopping-pattern/destination.

 

[Andrewlong]

180s are DMUs.

Aside from the sleeper, everything GWR run is a DMU (technically a HST is a DEMU but close enough)

Most people would think of a HST as a set of mark 3 coaches with a power car on each end whilst a DMU and 180 have undercarriage engines.

 

[ainsworth74]

Lets not do the 'HST: Is it a DMU or a Hauled Train?' debate on this thread

 

[ian1944]

I have two £5 (less railcard discount) Scotrail advance singles bought online through their website, Edinburgh/Aberdeen in a couple of weeks. I'm tied to particular trains with the tickets marked "No Specific Seat". A visit to the nearest staffed station at Dunbar, subsequent to purchase, got me specific seat reservations on these trains, i.e reservable seats were available then. I don't understand why apparently they weren't available, i.e not offered, at the time of booking, as is usual with advances. I can only assume that it's because they see no need to do favours for cheapo passengers - but it's their choice to offer the tickets, so why then discriminate?

 

[Mojo]

Arriva Trains Wales do this as well; I've booked Advance tickets and walkon tickets on the same train at the same time; the Advances came with counted place reservations and the walkon tickets had proper seat reservations.