Seat Reservations Not Working

[Ianmel1969]

Is there an official line as to what happens on trains when the seat reservation screens are not working?

We were on the 1245 from Wolverhampton to Euston on the 6th July. We had seat reservations.

The train was packed already, and it was clear that, due to the displays not working, passengers were all sitting in the wrong seats. I have been on trains like this before, and the train manager has apologised and just asked people to sit in any free seats.

The train manager on this train made no announcements until Rugby where he reported delays up ahead, all we got was automated announcements.

So there were people in our seats, and they said they weren't moving as there were no seat reservations working. We sat in another seat and at Birmingham some guy tried to get us to move. I said we would if the people would move from ours, they didn't. We stayed put.

Two rows up from us there was an almighty row with people trying to claim their seats with the occupant's refusing to budge. All this could have been diffused slightly had the train manager had made an announcement.

It was just left to passengers to take on other passengers, causing grief. It's no wonder you hear more and more delays to trains are happening where the cause are passenger disturbances. A black mark to this Avanti Trains manager.

 

[Djgr]

The official line is that the train manager does their job.

 

[Jan Mayen]

The official line is that the train manager does their job.

Is it their job to make an announcement apologising for the lack of seat reservations? I hope it is.

 

[D1537]

On the Edinburgh-KX I was on last Monday after the Northallerton person under train, we were carrying two trains worth of people plus Avanti passengers - the TM clearly explained the problem, told people to sit anywhere and repeatedly informed people that LNER passengers would be entitled to a full refund if they had to stand.

 

[43066]

Is there an official line as to what happens on trains when the seat reservation screens are not working?
We were on the 1245 from Wolverhampton to Euston on the 6th July. We had seat reservations. The train was packed already and it was clear that, due to the displays not working, passengers were all sitting in the wrong seats. I have been on trains like this before and the train manager has apologised and just asked people to sit in any free seats. The train manager on this train said absolutely nothing on the tannoy until Rugby where he reported delays up ahead, all we got was automated announcements. So there were people in our seats and they said they weren't moving as there were no seat reservations working. We sat in another seat and at Birmingham some guy tried to get us to move. I said we would if the people would move from ours, they didn't. We stayed put. Two rows up from us there was an almighty row with people trying to claim their seats with the occupant's refusing to budge. All this could have been diffused slightly had the train manager tried to explain things on the tannoy. It was just left to passengers to take on other passengers, causing grief. It's no wonder you hear more and more delays to trains are happening where the cause are passenger disturbances. A black mark to this Avanti Trains manager.

Officially there are no reservations in that situation.

TMs can make announcements, but that won’t always stop people getting into heated arguments about people sitting in “their” seats…

 

[styles]

Is it their job to make an announcement apologising for the lack of seat reservations? I hope it is.

Apologising may be company dependent. But it's certainly their job to look after passenger safety and it's no good having passengers rowing in the carriages and left confused.

All they need to say is the reservation screens aren't working so please sit in any available seat. It takes a few seconds after each stop, which on an Avanti service is not that many times you need to say it.

This does assume the driver is aware of the issue mind. If for whatever reason they haven't walked down the carriage, or haven't clocked the displays aren't working, then fair enough. I'm not sure Avanti have an SOP saying managers need to periodically check the reservation displays are working.

 

[43066]

Apologising may be company dependent. But it's certainly their job to look after passenger safety and it's no good having passengers rowing in the carriages and left confused.

All they need to say is the reservation screens aren't working so please sit in any available seat. It takes a few seconds after each stop, which on an Avanti service is not that many times you need to say it.

They should say it, but passengers will row regardless. Really it would be better if seat numbers were only visible on screens, which could be switched off if reservations weren’t available, so that nobody could identify “their” seat.

This does assume the driver is aware of the issue mind.

Whether the driver knows or not (and they probably won’t) won’t have any bearing on the issue.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I encountered a similar problem (actually duplicate reservations) on LNER recently, and although everyone was very civilised about it I did write to them to point out that it can lead disputes such as those you witnessed.
Despite tə fact that I did actually get a seat in both directions they sent me some compensation - without me asking - indeed, as the Gates had swallowed my tickets I wasn't ab'e to remember exactly what hey cost, but the refund was a little more than that!

So it's worth complaing

 

[Belperpete]

I seem to recall that at one time it was Avanti policy that the reservations still applied. Has this changed, or am I misremembering?

As far as I am aware, you are only in breach of the Conditions of Travel if you sit in a seat that is shown to be reserved - so if there is no label or display, someone sitting in "your" seat is perfectly entitled to do so, and you have no right to expect them to move.

I can remember sitting in a coach where the seats were all shown as Available. After I had started eating my lunch, someone came up who had reserved that seat, so I moved. Then someone else appeared who had a reservation for my new seat, so I moved me and my lunch again. By this time the carriage was getting quite full, so when someone came up and claimed that seat too, I refused to budge yet again.

 

[styles]

I seem to recall that at one time it was Avanti policy that the reservations still applied. Has this changed, or am I misremembering?

As far as I am aware, you are only in breach of the Conditions of Travel if you sit in a seat that is shown to be reserved - so if there is no label or display, someone sitting in "your" seat is perfectly entitled to do so, and you have no right to expect them to move.

I can remember sitting in a coach where the seats were all shown as Available. After I had started eating my lunch, someone came up who had reserved that seat, so I moved. Then someone else appeared who had a reservation for my new seat, so I moved me and my lunch again. By this time the carriage was getting quite full, so when someone came up and claimed that seat too, I refused to budge yet again.

I'm not sure but it's a totally unworkable policy. It would work fine on a service where reservations were (genuinely) compulsory because everybody boarding would have a set place.

But for passengers without a reservation, they can't be expected to get up and move every few stops because a different seat reservation holding passenger has appeared.

It's not just a poor travel experience, it's a safety issue, because inevitably someone with a reservation will sit in a different seat then they'll get asked to move then they'll say well ok I'll move it those people say in my seats move, then those people say no look there's no reservation shown, and eventually someone takes it too far and gets physical.

It's far easier and safer to just say there are no reservations unfortunately, please find an available seat. On extremely busy services this will not please some who have seat reservations, to whom it would make sense to apologise, but it's the only sensible option in my view.

 

[Djgr]

Apologising may be company dependent. But it's certainly their job to look after passenger safety and it's no good having passengers rowing in the carriages and left confused.

All they need to say is the reservation screens aren't working so please sit in any available seat. It takes a few seconds after each stop, which on an Avanti service is not that many times you need to say it.

This does assume the driver is aware of the issue mind. If for whatever reason they haven't walked down the carriage, or haven't clocked the displays aren't working, then fair enough. I'm not sure Avanti have an SOP saying managers need to periodically check the reservation displays are working.

I find it hard to believe that noticing whether the seat reservation system is working or not is not an obvious basic part of the train manager's job.

 

[styles]

I find it hard to believe that noticing whether the seat reservation system is working or not is not an obvious basic part of the train manager's job.

I've been on journeys where train managers have sat in cubicles or in the cafe car chatting to colleagues or on a laptop.

Whether they're meant to be doing something else I don't know.

 

[Parham Wood]

Report the lack of announcement to the TOC concerned.

 

[Retorus]

Officially there are no reservations in that situation.

TMs can make announcements, but that won’t always stop people getting into heated arguments about people sitting in “their” seats…

It certainly helps though.

 

[Towers]

I find it hard to believe that noticing whether the seat reservation system is working or not is not an obvious basic part of the train manager's job.

Very obviously, it absolutely is! And in addition to making suitably informative and apologetic announcements, advising passengers that if they held a reservation but had to stand they should complain will be compensated accordingly, they should also be phoning it through to whoever is responsible for updating the station info screens so that people are aware of it before they board. As you say, baseline train manager stuff, literally ‘managing the train’!

 

[Mikey C]

I had the same issue on Saturday, on the 08:38 Euston to Edinburgh via Birmingham service. There was an announcement, but it wasn't loud enough it so I have no idea what we were told.

Thankfully I got on the train early (using Realtime Trains so was waiting at the correct platform), so got my seat before the scrum. I'm glad I did as the train was RAMMED between London and Birmingham, with people going to the Test match and the Ozzy Osbourne farewell concert.

 

[43066]

Officially there are no reservations in that situation.

TMs can make announcements, but that won’t always stop people getting into heated arguments about people sitting in “their” seats…

Report the lack of announcement to the TOC concerned.

It certainly helps though.

Well report it then! We have no proof of how many announcements were or weren’t made, were made but missed etc., on the occasion being discussed.

These discussions won’t make any difference to the underlying problem…

 

[Falcon1200]

I seem to recall that at one time it was Avanti policy that the reservations still applied.

Which was unworkable, given that passengers without reservations could have no idea whether any given seats were booked or not.

 

[Parallel]

When I last travelled on LNER from Inverness, the reservations were switched off due to a fault but the train manager was advising passengers to sit in their reserved seats. It makes for a very uncomfortable journey if you don’t hold a seat reservation because you don’t know when the seats are reserved between. Their autoannouncements also didn’t advise there was a short platform at Newtonmore, which meant some passengers were overcarried. Very poor.

 

[Grecian 1998]

I believe XC's official policy is that seat reservations are valid even if the screen displays aren't working. Needless to say, on many trains the TM would have no chance of getting through the train to enforce it even if they wanted to, so it can be rather reliant on goodwill from the seat occupant.

When they had HSTs, I think they didn't enforce reservations if Voyagers were substituting given the different seat numbering, but now that all 'classic route' trains are Voyagers and so have A-C-D-F, this wouldn't apply anymore.

 

[yorkie]

Is there an official line as to what happens on trains when the seat reservation screens are not working?

Most train companies take the sensible view that such trains are treated the same as any other train without reservations.

Sadly, some, such as CrossCountry and now joined by the likes of airline-on-rails LNER, now have a policy of invisible reservations, musical chairs and passengers asking each other to move and play 'musical chairs'.

We were on the 1245 from Wolverhampton to Euston on the 6th July. We had seat reservations. The train was packed already and it was clear that, due to the displays not working, passengers were all sitting in the wrong seats. I have been on trains like this before and the train manager has apologised and just asked people to sit in any free seats.

This is indeed how it should be done, but staff should be making this clear by communicating effectively....

The train manager on this train said absolutely nothing on the tannoy until Rugby where he reported delays up ahead, all we got was automated announcements.

...sadly some staff in positions where the job spec requires them to be effective communicators simply aren't. There are insufficient safeguards in the industry to ensure that staff act/behave appropriately on a consistent basis.

So there were people in our seats and they said they weren't moving as there were no seat reservations working. We sat in another seat and at Birmingham some guy tried to get us to move. I said we would if the people would move from ours, they didn't. We stayed put. Two rows up from us there was an almighty row with people trying to claim their seats with the occupant's refusing to budge. All this could have been diffused slightly had the train manager tried to explain things on the tannoy. It was just left to passengers to take on other passengers, causing grief. It's no wonder you hear more and more delays to trains are happening where the cause are passenger disturbances. A black mark to this Avanti Trains manager.

Agreed; all they had to do was apologise for the lack of reservations and ask people to sit in any vacant seat, as well as stating where they could be found (or that they will be walking through the train) if anyone has any queries.

Some Guards are brilliant and will regularly walk the train and make announcements stating which coaches have spare seats, and will also upgrade anyone who is in particular need of a seat, that sort of thing. But some just can't be bothered to do the job effectively. It's a very mixed bag.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2025 ==

Is it their job to make an announcement apologising for the lack of seat reservations? I hope it is.

I would consider it to be part of the expectations of the job, however there is nothing in place to ensure that this happens.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2025 ==

I encountered a similar problem (actually duplicate reservations) on LNER recently, and although everyone was very civilised about it I did write to them to point out that it can lead disputes such as those you witnessed.
Despite tə fact that I did actually get a seat in both directions they sent me some compensation - without me asking - indeed, as the Gates had swallowed my tickets I wasn't ab'e to remember exactly what hey cost, but the refund was a little more than that!

So it's worth complaing

I agree it's worth complaining, but I'd be careful how I worded it, as this is the sort of complaint that could easily be misinterpreted. I'd put it in as a complaint against staff for not apologising for the lack of reservations and making it clear to passengers joining that there were no reservations. I wouldn't word it as a complaint that the reservations were not displayed/honoured.

Sadly, I doubt the Guard would be given appropriate feedback/training to ensure they communicate effectively in future, so it's likely to be a fruitless excercise.

 

[Ianmel1969]

Report the lack of announcement to the TOC concerned.

Will do