Seat-hogging tactic

[maniacmartin]

I recently witnessed some rude behavior on the LU Jubilee line, and would be interested to know if it has been witnessed by anyone else, and what you would do in the same situation.

At the front of the front carriage of the Jubilee line stock there is a little dead-end leading up to the internal door to the driver's cab, with a few seats on each side. All seats in the carriage were occupied, so a passenger stood at the end of this dead-end, blocking it off to stop anyone getting down.

As the train progressed, the train got very busy and there was a lack of standing room, but at every station the passenger refused to move down or let anyone pass. He was pretending to read a newspaper and listen to music in his headphones, and when asked to move down, moved perhaps 2cm. He had also placed his luggage strategically in the way to stop people getting past, and when people tried to squeeze past he would pretend to notice they weren't there, and "accidentally" lean or stretch his arms to block their way.

Thus, even though he couldn't secure a seat, he secured the "first rights" to about a dozen seats, rather than just 2 that a standing passenger would usually have first dibs at. Once a seat was vacated, he sat in it and suddenly became alert and uninterested in his newspaper or music.

 

[Deerfold]

If he didn't move down very far I'd have asked if he'd let me past. That's harder to do in a half-hearted way. I'm not overly bothered about a seat on the underground but I do get annoyed about being squashed when there's space elsewhere in the carriage.

 

[maniacmartin]

People did ask, but he just ignored them and blocked them getting past

 

[Deerfold]

People did ask, but he just ignored them and blocked them getting past

I'd have pushed past. I'll ask politely in the first (and usually second) instance and then go for it.

 

[SS4]

Ask him to move, if that doesn't work barge him out the way. Look behind you to intimate you were pushed if you like

 

[wintonian]

They could have been using their own adaptation of this guide.

 

[AlexS]

It's the Tube, people expect to get budged and shoved somewhat, so take it to extremes

 

[oversteer]

People like to be near the doors, but there comes a point when you either move down or let people past.
I would have happily shoved past

 

[work-traveller]

Would seem perfectly acceptable to push him out the way - forcefully if required.

 

[Johnuk123]

Blimey, apparently some people on the tube are rude and ignorant, first time I've heard that.

 

[maniacmartin]

Blimey, apparently some people on the tube are rude and ignorant, first time I've heard that.

Usually they aren't quite this rude though

 

[route:oxford]

No imagination!

First stage is to *read* his newspaper...

Next is to stand close to him and let yourself sway with the train, stagger and fall.

Finally, say "it's you isn't it, I thought I recognised you!", then pick the name of a politician and say, "look everyone, it's"...

 

[p123]

In Scotland, the big man would have thrown him off...

 

[Jatos]

I would have liked to seen him up against the 'big man'

 

[transmanche]

He had also placed his luggage strategically in the way to stop people getting past, and when people tried to squeeze past he would pretend to notice they weren't there, and "accidentally" lean or stretch his arms to block their way.

If I had been there, I would have moved his luggage to gain access. I might even have moved it to the platform.

 

[Jatos]

That would have been evil, and funny

 

[yorkie]

If anyone wants to barge past rude people breaking byelaws, simply get off a train heading to Sunderland (which calls at Eaglescliffe for the louts) or Middlesbrough on a Saturday night at York. It was great the other week as I was getting my bike off. I simply repeated an instruction not to board while passengers were getting off while forcibly moving my bike toward the door. So when they squeezed past me, it was not me they squeezed past, it was my handlebar . Not a great decision by the louts! Sadly a bike wouldn't be permitted in the central section of the Jubilee line.

I always make sure I get one up on the scumbags. On a previous occasion I got their alcohol confiscated - result!

 

[jon0844]

Happened all the time on the Northern Line when I (rarely) had to use it from Old Street to King's Cross. Boarding train at the front (as that's where I came down from the FCC service, which might have been delayed or whatever) you'd see the space between the doors and the drivers cab - and people not moving down. I'd say it was pretty much every single train during the peak.

People, including myself, would bang on the glass while waiting to board and point for them to move down and they'd ignore you. People would ask them to move down from the doorway and also be ignored.

Consequently, it could often take a few trains to get on at all because of these people wanting to remain near the doors... but most people would never do anything more than ask for people to move down - never pushing by to fill the gap themselves. My theory is that they won't push past, as they're actually just as selfish and don't want to be 'stuck' either. Whereas I'm quite happy to go by and never once have I ever been unable to get off a tube train that was crowded.

 

[Bedpan]

Its not only the underground though. Had the same experience on the way home from Gatwick last summer. Flew in at about 7am, waited for the 9.32 and found it only had 4 carriages with people standing in the area round the doors and positively refusing to move down the carriage, so that by the time a few people with suitcases had boarded, there was no room for anybody else.

 

[Johnuk123]

It's not just trains though is it, it's everywhere you go.

Society in general has become a place full of people with no manners, no people skills, no idea how to communicate properly.

Go to any large shopping centre on any day of the week and it's packed with people walking into each other whilst on mobiles.
They will stand in shop doorways chatting and if you say "excuse me" they often look daggers at you.

Although it's predominately younger people plenty of older ones are also rude and ignorant.

 

[rdwarr]

Best one I had was about fifteen years ago on the Piccadilly Line. I was on a crowded train at Russell Square when a couple of German tourists barged on wearing massive rucksacks on their backs which they used to barge everybody else out of the way to their great amusement.
Before I got off at Holborn I managed to tie one of the rucksacks (and thus its wearer) to the handrail. He didn't notice but a few of the other passengers did and seemed quite amused. I never got to see the outcome though.

 

[Jeni]

Although it's predominately younger people plenty of older ones are also rude and ignorant.

I'd say that it's actually predominately the older generation. Youngsters tend to have much more manners these days.

 

[work-traveller]

I'd say that it's actually predominately the older generation. Youngsters tend to have much more manners these days.

Definately some truth in that. Some of the rudest people you can have the misfortune to encounter are men in their 50/60s. This type of gentleman probably has a copy of the Telegraph or Mail rolled up under his arm.

However, on the other hand - said gentleman isn't likely to slide a knife into your guts - that WILL be the youngster!

 

[Jeni]

However, on the other hand - said gentleman isn't likely to slide a knife into your guts - that WILL be the youngster!

Ahhhh, guilty without trial I see!

Opinions like that make my blood boil!

 

[phil281]

Best one I had was about fifteen years ago on the Piccadilly Line. I was on a crowded train at Russell Square when a couple of German tourists barged on wearing massive rucksacks on their backs which they used to barge everybody else out of the way to their great amusement.
Before I got off at Holborn I managed to tie one of the rucksacks (and thus its wearer) to the handrail. He didn't notice but a few of the other passengers did and seemed quite amused. I never got to see the outcome though.

That's absolutely hilarious!

 

[Squaddie]

Ahhhh, guilty without trial I see!

Opinions like that make my blood boil!

You can't really deny, though, that knife crime is predominantly carried out by young people on other young people. Just look at the headlines.

 

[jon0844]

Indeed, but it doesn't mean all youngsters carry them. However, it's unlikely that someone in their 50s will see a knife as something to carry for self defence.

 

[Harlesden]

A dozen seats? I don't think so. Not in the tiny deadend directly in front of the drivers cab which, incidentally, has a notice on the door asking for the doorway not to be obstructed. Aside from that, how would you feel if you had been standing for 20 minutes or more and then somebody who had only got on the train at the previous station immediately jumped into a vacated seat

 

[yorkie]

A dozen seats? I don't think so. Not in the tiny deadend directly in front of the drivers cab which, incidentally, has a notice on the door asking for the doorway not to be obstructed....

People standing in the aisle does not count as an 'obstruction' surely? On the other hand the individual in question was causing an obstruction with luggage.

Aside from that, how would you feel if you had been standing for 20 minutes or more and then somebody who had only got on the train at the previous station immediately jumped into a vacated seat

But you can't mitigate against that by disallowing anyone else to stand in the aisle!

 

[3141]

A dozen seats? I don't think so. Not in the tiny deadend directly in front of the drivers cab which, incidentally, has a notice on the door asking for the doorway not to be obstructed. Aside from that, how would you feel if you had been standing for 20 minutes or more and then somebody who had only got on the train at the previous station immediately jumped into a vacated seat

The area isn't tiny - it's about a quarter of the length of the carriage, between the forward pair of double doors and the driver's cab. I think there are six seats each side.

On the Underground, when trains are busy, it's simply a matter of luck whether you get a seat that becomes available after you've been standing for a bit. In fact you may not get one at all, and the trains are designed with a small number of perimeter seats to leave as much space as possible for standing passengers. I think Northern and Jubilee Line trains have room for about 32 seats per coach and may carry over 100 standing.

I think the bit about not obstructing the door to the driver's cab, which has been on such doors for at least 70 years, is there in case the driver needs to leave the cab and enter the passenger area of the train. A person standing there should easily be pushed out of the way, but if luggage had been piled up by the door there might be a problem. It's very unusual for the driver to need to use that door, except on some stock at the end of a journey, when the passengers will all have got off anyway.