Season tickets, performance targets, multiple operators

[cmjcf]

I commute between Swansea and Cardiff daily. I hold a month season ticket SWA-CDQ. My journey every morning is almost invariably 0728 SWA-PAD, and my return journey in the evening is generally either 1445 PAD-SWA (from CDF at 1648) or 1545 PAD-SWA (from CDF at 1748). My journeys home have been frequently delayed - in particular, these two seem to have had particular trouble since Reading was re-opened after Easter. These three services are all operated by FGW. The charter figures for March showed that FGW missed the punctuality target on "High Speed Services", which includes my journeys to and from work. (ATW naturally provide the trip around the corner in Cardiff, but I gather that where a journey involves different services, the group with the longest part of the journey prevails, so in my case SWA-CDF defines the group rather than CDF-CDQ.)

FGW missed their target on the "High Speed" group (88 vs 89%), triggering a 5% discount. However, ATW met their target on the "South, West and Central Wales" group (96 vs 92%). As mentioned, on any given day, I am almost certainly on FGW's trains. My ticket expires tomorrow, but as I have no need to travel at the weekend I am minded to delay renewal until Tuesday. Where do I stand as regards discounts?

Thanks in advance.

 

[bb21]

Depends on which Charter group your route falls into. It has nothing to do with who you actually travel with.

As SWA - CDQ is priced by ATW, my money is on it belonging to an ATW Charter group. If you are eligible for a discount, you will be told so when you renew on Tuesday.

 

[barrykas]

Incidentally, the latest lists of void days and charter discounts can be found on the ATOC site.

And I'd concur that Swansea - Cardiff would count as ATW for charter purposes, regardless of which TOC you actually use, given they own the flow.

 

[Mojo]

Slightly off topic but whilst we are discussing this; what happens if there are two Tocs on a route, one with a charter scheme which offers discounts/void days and another with Delay Repay. If you travel on a train with a ticket which includes a % discount or void days, can you still claim Delay Repay if you travel on that Toc?

 

[bb21]

I don't think it is intended for the journey to be claimable against Delay Repay and be eligible for renewal discounts, however I don't think there is anything to stop a claim being made, at least for the interim period where the two schemes run parallel to each other.

 

[LexyBoy]

A related question I was going to ask - what determines which service group is used? For example, Reading-Didcot: most journeys will be on High Speed services but it's obviously also a Thames Valley route.

 

[reb0118]

It can be confusing with just one TOC too! I'm not sure if it is still the case but ScotRail was split into different service groups for passenger charter purposes and some of these overlapped e.g. Linlithgow to Edinburgh was covered by both East (Dunblanes) and Express (Glasgows).

Compensation to season ticket holders would be paid out if standards were not made however there were differences in the trigger times for this between East (over 5 mins late) & Express (10 mins). Now Linlithgow - Edinburgh was classified as express for compensation purposes regardless of what service you used. This caused great annoyance to season ticket holders who would have been compensated if the flow was classified as East.

I'm not sure what happened at Falkirk Grahamston (East) & Falkirk High (Express) as the ticket was issued from Falkirk Stations to Edinburgh and the passenger could in theory use either station.

 

[barrykas]

A related question I was going to ask - what determines which service group is used? For example, Reading-Didcot: most journeys will be on High Speed services but it's obviously also a Thames Valley route.

In the case of Great Western, it depends whether the route in question was ex-Great Western Link, ex-Great Western or ex-Wessex.

My gut instinct would be that London - Didcot (and intermediately) would be classed as London & Thames Valley for charter purposes, with High Speed kicking in at Swindon. But you'd have to contact FGW for a definitive answer.

 

[cmjcf]

Not the answer I was looking for, but the one that I suspected I was likely to get. That does seem like a nasty little loophole though, especially since AIUI under the RSP FGW receive more of the fares for that section than ATW as they provide more of the carrying capacity.

Thanks all.

 

[bb21]

Not the answer I was looking for, but the one that I suspected I was likely to get. That does seem like a nasty little loophole though, especially since AIUI under the RSP FGW receive more of the fares for that section than ATW as they provide more of the carrying capacity.

Thanks all.

Swings and roundabouts with the Charter system, as there will be other people who do not experience delays to their journey ending up with renewal discounts simply because their journey falls into an eligible group. Not necessarily fair I will give you that.

 

[LexyBoy]

Swings and roundabouts with the Charter system, as there will be other people who do not experience delays to their journey ending up with renewal discounts simply because their journey falls into an eligible group. Not necessarily fair I will give you that.

Only (in a lot of cases) if they think to ask!

In the case of Great Western, it depends whether the route in question was ex-Great Western Link, ex-Great Western or ex-Wessex.

My gut instinct would be that London - Didcot (and intermediately) would be classed as London & Thames Valley for charter purposes, with High Speed kicking in at Swindon. But you'd have to contact FGW for a definitive answer.

Thanks, that's what I thought. Doesn't matter for me as both are below punctuality targets, I will ask when I renew though.

 

[bb21]

Only (in a lot of cases) if they think to ask!

You shouldn't have to ask. Charter discounts should be given automatically, from experience.

 

[LexyBoy]

My gut instinct would be that London - Didcot (and intermediately) would be classed as London & Thames Valley for charter purposes, with High Speed kicking in at Swindon. But you'd have to contact FGW for a definitive answer.

Just in case anyone finds this looking for the answer, it counts as a High Speed service, which is sensible.