Season tickets more expensive?

[AllWork]

Hello,

I've come across what is - to me - a strange situation where Merseyrail 'railpass' tickets on a commute from Hooton to Liverpool Lime St seems particularly poor value.

The available tickets are:

Standard return: £4.10
Weekly: £23.20 (5.65 x standard return)
Monthly: £80 (19.5 x standard return)
Annual: £800 (195 x standard return)

I'm a bit annoyed as I bought a weekly to 'try' going by rail and seem to have paid more than 5 singles!

I can see from the fares guide that a multiplier is used (3.84 weeks per month, 40 weeks per year) but this is very optimistic given the number of 'non-work' days (52ish weekend days, 8-10 bank holidays, annual leave, sick and other non-travelling days). I estimate my likely commutes to be 198 days/yr making an annual pass £4.04 vs £4.10 for daily tickets.

If I commute 4 less days (for whatever reason) I'm worse off with a season ticket!

Have I got my maths wrong here? I can't see a better option.

 

[bb21]

No, you haven't got your calculation wrong, but it is meaningless in the context of our Fares & Ticketing Guide, for the simple fact that PTE products, which Merseytravel Railpass is an example, are not subject to the same pricing formula listed in Section 5.4 as they are not National Rail products.

What you are buying with a Hooton - Liverpool Railpass is not just a season ticket on the line itself, but a pass valid throughout Zone B1, B2 and C1 on this map. It is very good value for people needing to travel throughout the area covered, but may not be quite so for those like you, who need only a section of the validity provided.

 

[Greenback]

As soon as I read the first post I suspected that it was a zonal ticket allowing a lot of travel.

This could be the case for other zonal type tickets where someone may end up buying more travel than they actually need.

 

[Emyr]

Hale - Knutsford:
Std Ret £5.90
Week Season £25.80 = 4.37 x return
1 year ticket = £1032 = 174.9 x return = 3.5 returns for 50 weeks (allowing for annual leave)

Given that I don't use this train more than 3 days most weeks, the season tickets aren't particularly tempting to me.

 

[Greenback]

Given that I don't use this train more than 3 days most weeks, the season tickets aren't particularly tempting to me.

Season tickets need to be updated to reflect changes in working patterns and society. Flexible working, working from home, annualised hours and so forth mean that the traditional weekly season isn't attractive for growing numbers of passengers.

 

[kieron]

I can see from the fares guide that a multiplier is used (3.84 weeks per month, 40 weeks per year) but this is very optimistic given the number of 'non-work' days (52ish weekend days, 8-10 bank holidays, annual leave, sick and other non-travelling days). I estimate my likely commutes to be 198 days/yr making an annual pass £4.04 vs £4.10 for daily tickets.

If I commute 4 less days (for whatever reason) I'm worse off with a season ticket

Hooton-Liverpool day returns cost less than 25p/mile including the Mersey Tunnel. If a weekly Railpass costs a couple of pence/mile extra, it's still not poor value. It's just not the best option for the journey you intend to make.

For the longer period ones (which seem to be priced as 1 month=3.5 weeks approx, and 1 year=10 months) , it becomes a question of what you'll do with it over the period. If you commute fewer times by train, or have a railcard you can use some or all of the year, it becomes worse value compared to day returns. If you go once or twice by train to (say) West Kirby, Aintree or Liverpool South Parkway, or go into Liverpool for reasons other than commuting, it becomes better value.

Cost aside, not having to buy a ticket each day is also a benefit to consider, and having an expensive bit of card which can only be replaced if you lose it, and only for a fee, is a drawback.

It's all a question of your judgement, in the end.

 

[tony_mac]

Is Merseyside unique amongst PTEs in not also having any standard point-to-point season tickets?

For some short, cross-boundary, journeys the weekly season ticket can cost more than 10 day returns.

 

[maniacmartin]

Is Merseyside unique amongst PTEs in not also having any standard point-to-point season tickets?

For some short, cross-boundary, journeys the weekly season ticket can cost more than 10 day returns.

Not strictly a PTE, but TfL try to eradicate point to points on London Overground.

 

[AllWork]

Thanks everyone for the input. I can see the value but it does undermine the intention to 'Park & Ride' commute if the PTE bases it's prices on an assumption that users will visit multiple locations on the network.

Hooton-Liverpool day returns cost less than 25p/mile including the Mersey Tunnel. If a weekly Railpass costs a couple of pence/mile extra, it's still not poor value. It's just not the best option for the journey you intend to make.

This is a fair point, absolutely, and the equivalent car-only commute is £4.10 (around 40%) more expensive than even the most expensive option (7 Day tickets used on an average of 3.8 days/week).

Carnets would be perfect but, alas, not available on Merseyrail.

If you go once or twice by train to (say) West Kirby, Aintree or Liverpool South Parkway, or go into Liverpool for reasons other than commuting, it becomes better value.

Cost aside, not having to buy a ticket each day is also a benefit to consider, and having an expensive bit of card which can only be replaced if you lose it, and only for a fee, is a drawback.

It's all a question of your judgement, in the end.

I must agree with you - balancing off around 195 sets of tickets against the risk of loss/damage to an annual will be the key decision.

 

[Mojo]

Is Merseyside unique amongst PTEs in not also having any standard point-to-point season tickets?

There are no point-to-point Standard class season tickets available for most (all?) journeys in the Network West Midlands area.

 

[island]

Gravesend to Rochester is an example where there is no zonality or the like; an anytime day return costs £6 and a 7 day season £41.

 

[455driver]

Season tickets need to be updated to reflect changes in working patterns and society. Flexible working, working from home, annualised hours and so forth mean that the traditional weekly season isn't attractive for growing numbers of passengers.

I agree, maybe something like the FCC carnet tickets could be rolled out Nationwide?



Only joking folks, only joking!

 

[All Line Rover]

I know little about PTE areas but in my experience short distance season tickets tend to be terribly poor value for money. Car travel wins hands down. Prices improve dramatically for medium to long distance journeys (along with nicer trains, a reserved seat, better frequency and faster speeds!).

Some local examples:

Whitchurch (Shrop) to Crewe - 20km
Day Return: £8.30, peak or off-peak (terrible value)
7-Day Season: £37.40 (a saving of just £4.10)

Stoke to Birmingham - 65km
Day Return: £22.30 (not bad, consider the speed, high frequency and, for some, Railcard discount)
7-Day Season: £70.80 (a saving of £40.70)

But once you stray to more obscure medium distance journeys, anomalies start to reappear:

Whitchurch (Shrop) to Birmingham - 90km
Day Return: £18 (cheap but slow, terrible frequency and connections)
7-Day Season: £106 (a loss of £16)

 

[47421]

Hackney Downs to Cheshunt

http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=HAC&dest=CHN

Anytime day return £8.30
7 day season £47.80 (5.75 x ADR)
PAYG single peak £5.40
PAYG single off peak £3.20