Season ticket validity across TOCs (Scotland)

[iguana]

Hi

I'm enjoying browsing the threads on these forums.

And I've just read through the bit on Season Tickets in the Fares and Ticketing guide. Excellent and helpful work by whoever put that up! I couldn't find a definite answer there to my question, though.

My question is: can I get a season ticket from Glasgow to Motherwell that's valid on any train?

The great thing about working in Motherwell is that there are so many trains to choose from - from worst to best:

- Scotrail from Central low level via Hamilton (takes ages)
- Scotrail from Central low level via Uddingston (better, especially if the train decides to give Bellshill a miss today)
- Scotrail/XC/Virgin/East Coast from Central high level direct (great). (Virgin/East Coast only theoretically, since they don't run trains to Motherwell at the times I want).

At the moment I'm buying an Anytime Day Return every day for £6.60, happily getting on a Cross-Country (XC) train in the morning, and depending on when I finish work, happily getting on either an XC train or a direct Scotrail train (from Nth Berwick or Edinburgh, I think) in the the evening.

This is great. No constant irrelevant wittering from *&@¬! Scotrail Sonia: I can think about work or just stare out of the window, the way train travel should be. And I'm reducing my risk of dying early from high blood pressure, or making others die before their time by procuring an assault weapon and going postal while screaming "Please Mind The Gap Between The Train and Platform". (The fast Scotrail trains, which are few and far between, are operated by those new Velaro? trains, which demonstrate that you can have passenger announcements and door tones that don't deafen you, interrupt your conversations or make you jump out of your skin).

My first thought was to get an SPT Zonecard (an absolute bargain! Also includes my Subway travel to Central). Knowing how gnarly fare conditions can be, I asked the SPT travelcentre guy about non-Scotrail trains rather than just buying the Zonecards. He thought that Virgin don't accept Zonecards (and caught the eye of the woman working next to him and cracked up). Then I asked about Cross-Country which sent him and his colleague even further into hysterics (by this time I couldn't keep a straight face either). As far as he knew they don't accept Zonecards either.

So I thought a season ticket would be the way to go. But at Glasgow Central the ticket guy said it would only be valid on Scotrail trains, with the unhelpful reasoning that "this is a Scotrail ticket office". But Scotrail website's Season Ticket section says something about "valid on any train".

So I'm confused. I've emailed SPT to confirm about the Zonecard, and they're looking into it.

I'm wondering why my daily Anytime Day Return ticket is valid for any train, but a season ticket might not be. (I know, I'm trying to apply logic to UK train fares...). Is there any general rule about season tickets and different TOCs?

If the Zonecard would work, I'd save £20 a week, with the added bonus of free Subway travel at weekends. But I'm really more interested in not having to buy a Subway ticket and a train ticket every day.

thanks for any help!

 

[greatkingrat]

An ordinary season ticket from Glasgow to Motherwell is £25.30 for a weekly and is definitely valid on any operator (but not on the subway). Not sure about the zonecard but the SPT website implies it is Scotrail only.

 

[kieron]

The SPT site is fairly unambiguous, I'm afraid. A Glasgow-Holytown season ticket is slightly cheaper than a Motherwell one, and is valid on the same routes from Motherwell, at a cost of making refunds a bit more complicated. It's still more than £13/week, though.

 

[Deerfold]

The SPT site is fairly unambiguous, I'm afraid.

It is?

It says the card is valid for unlimited travel by rail (which suggests any operator) but then only lists Scotrail in the operator contact section.

 

[TUC]

It is ambiguous isn' it? PTE-derived rail products are usually all operator but the website is far from clear.

 

[iguana]

Thank you for the replies. Looks like a season ticket would be a safe bet.

I'd still love it if the Zonecard worked though.

This morning I got off the XC train and spotted someone walking ahead of me towards the ticket gates at Motherwell carrying that distinctive SPT wallet. I asked him whether it was a Zonecard and if he'd ever had any hassle about it. None at all, he said - it's Virgin who make a fuss about it (which luckily for me is irrelevant since they never stop at Motherwell at these times in that direction).

I'll wait to see what SPT turn up - the email from them last week said they were investigating by contacting the various TOCs involved.

 

[bb21]

The website may be fairly clear, however I think it would be important to see what is actually printed on the ZoneCard itself.

 

[TUC]

The website may be fairly clear, however I think it would be important to see what is actually printed on the ZoneCard itself.

I don't think the website is clear. Tt states ( http://www.spt.co.uk/travelcards/zonecard/ ) that Zonecard is valid for 'unlimited travel on subway, rail, ferries and most buses'. The qualification of 'most' for buses implies that for other modes of transport it is 'all' but then it goes and only lists Scotrail in the rail operators.

Why are so many PTEs so inept when it comes to simply clarity in their publicity?

 

[Deerfold]

The website may be fairly clear, however I think it would be important to see what is actually printed on the ZoneCard itself.

What do you think it clearly says?

 

[bb21]

Unlimited travel by rail. Nothing about valid on all operators. It is clear that it is only valid on ScotRail under "Operators". This isn't an obscure restriction hidden in a little corner somewhere.

However this is all irrelevant if the ticket is not purchased online. It is more important what information is actually included on the ticket itself in accordance with NRCoC Condition 10.

 

[TUC]

Unlimited travel by rail. Nothing about valid on all operators. It is clear that it is only valid on ScotRail under "Operators". This isn't an obscure restriction hidden in a little corner somewhere.

However this is all irrelevant if the ticket is not purchased online. It is more important what information is actually included on the ticket itself in accordance with NRCoC Condition 10.

But my point was that it says 'unlimited travel by rail ... and most buses'. As there is only the qualification of 'most' for buses, the sentence structure implies 'all' for trains. It would have been the simplest thing to add 'most trains' if that was the actual position.

 

[Deerfold]

Unlimited travel by rail. Nothing about valid on all operators. It is clear that it is only valid on ScotRail under "Operators". This isn't an obscure restriction hidden in a little corner somewhere.

Nothing about any restrictions on operators either.

However this is all irrelevant if the ticket is not purchased online. It is more important what information is actually included on the ticket itself in accordance with NRCoC Condition 10.

Yes, what's on the ticket (if anything) will be most important - but so is the availability of accurate information.

 

[bb21]

But my point was that it says 'unlimited travel by rail ... and most buses'. As there is only the qualification of 'most' for buses, the sentence structure implies 'all' for trains. It would have been the simplest thing to add 'most trains' if that was the actual position.

Yes, it would certainly help matters, or just add "on ScotRail services only".

However in the absence of such wording, I don't think it can be claimed that it is not clear. It is correct in stating that the pass does offer unlimited travel by rail. There is a tab called "Operaters" right next to it under which detailed information is listed, and it is not hidden amongst hundreds of words of other irrelevant wibble.

Not everything must be displayed on the overview page, nor can everything always fit.

 

[reb0118]

I spoke to a XC guard today and asked if they accept zonecards between Glasgow & Motherwell. He replied yes, although he did say there had been a bit of confusion re. their validity on XC trains in the past, but that that had all been sorted.

Good news all round.

 

[iguana]

Fantastic! Once the renewal date comes round (Sunday) I'll be Zonecarded up.

XC is all that matters: Virgin don't run stopping trains at the right time, and NE/GNE/NER/East Coast don't seem to go from Glasgow much any more.

Thanks for checking this out!

 

[b0b]

back in my day, when the Zonecard first appeared, all Intercity services were setdown/pickup only at Motherwell, so there was no way to uses non SPT services (as they were back then) with a Zonecard.

 

[bb21]

Good news all round.

Indeed. I hope they update all relevant publicity soon.

 

[iguana]

I've just had this confirmed in an email from SPT:

Further to my e-mail of 31 January and thank you for your patience while I ascertained the relevant information relating to your enquiry.

First ScotRail has now confirmed there is an agreement in place with the TOC’s (Train Operating Companies) highlighted in your e-mail. ZoneCard tickets are valid on services between Motherwell and Glasgow Central rail stations operated by Virgin, Cross Country and East Coast rail companies.

Excellent! Not that I've seen an East Coast train round these parts for a while (there may be some at other times); and Virgin don't stop at Motherwell in the right direction for me - but it's good to know that there's some kind of sense going on and a season ticket is just a season ticket. Ticket, train, travel.

 

[anme]

I've just had this confirmed in an email from SPT:



Excellent! Not that I've seen an East Coast train round these parts for a while (there may be some at other times); and Virgin don't stop at Motherwell in the right direction for me - but it's good to know that there's some kind of sense going on and a season ticket is just a season ticket. Ticket, train, travel.

I am very surprised that the PTE didn't already know this!

 

[AndrewR232]

I also use a Zonecard and am pleased we have confirmation of this. I'll be using Cross Country services between GLC and MTH regularly now!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

XC is all that matters: Virgin don't run stopping trains at the right time, and NE/GNE/NER/East Coast don't seem to go from Glasgow much any more.

Not that I've seen an East Coast train round these parts for a while (there may be some at other times)

There is now only one East Coast service a day in each direction to Glasgow Central (and which stops at Motherwell); northbound, it arrives Central at 21:25 ; southbound, it leaves Central at 06:50.