Season Ticket Poynton-Liverpool

[Stuwhu]

Hello

Is a Poynton-Liverpool Lime St monthly season ticket (cost £253.50) valid via both Manchester or Kidsgrove.. If not, is there one that is?

Thanks for any help given

 

[island]

Poynton's associated routeing poynts () are Crewe, Stockport, Stoke on Trent, and Wilmslow. Liverpool Lime Street is part of the Liverpool routeing group. Poynton to Liverpool Stns SDS costs £14.30.

• Crewe to Liverpool Stns SDS is £11.10, so Crewe is an appropriate routeing point.
• Stockport to Liverpool Stns SDS costs £14.30, so Stockport is an appropriate routeing point.
• There is no fare to compare for Stoke on Trent, although an SOS is £17.80 to Liverpool Stns. I'm not sure if one should compare SOS with SDS, but I think it's reasonable to conclude that Stoke on Trent isn't an appropriate routeing point. In any case, one would probably end up doubling back between Stoke and Kidsgrove.
• Wilmslow to Liverpool Stns route VIA CREWE is £12.20 and route VIA MANCHESTER is £13, so Wilmslow is an appropriate routeing point.

Crewe to Liverpool Group can use map EM, ML+NC, or NC+NL.
Stockport to Liverpool Group can use map LY, PS, or TP.
Wilmslow Group to Liverpool Group can use map LY or PS.

Choosing Crewe as the routeing point, on map EM you can go from Poynton to Kidsgrove to Crewe and on to Runcorn, Hunts Cross, and Liverpool.

Choosing Stockport as the routeing point, on map LY you can go to Manchester, Earlestown, and Liverpool. You can also go via Manchester and Warrington on map TP.

So yes, both of those journeys are valid.

Now, how many people have beaten me to the post? Edit: None
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And I should mention our standing advice on monthly season tickets: don't buy them! You're allowed to buy a season ticket for any period you like between a month and a year, so it's a good idea to plan your purchase so that you miss out paying for some weekends or leave periods. You can also buy more in advance now if you want to get it at the old prices.

For example, if you needed a ticket to start on Monday the 23rd of January, buying a 1-month ticket would get it up to Wednesday the 22nd of February and cost £268.80 (23 working days, £11.69 per day). If instead you got the ticket valid up to Friday the 24th, it would cost £287.00 (25 working days, £11.48 per day). Not a huge saving, but better in your pocket, right?

 

[John @ home]

Choosing Crewe as the routeing point, ... you can go from Poynton to Kidsgrove to Crewe and on to Runcorn, Hunts Cross, and Liverpool.

But can you "go from Poynton to Kidsgrove to Crewe"?

If using Crewe as an appropriate Routeing Point (RP), "the permitted route is the shortest route to the routeing point plus the permitted routes between routeing points" (NRG Instructions page A4).

But the shortest route Poynton - Crewe is not via Kidsgrove, it's via Wilmslow. And if you go via Wilmslow, are you not using Wilmslow Group as the appropriate RP?

I think this example is not answered definitively by the National Routeing Guide.

More later.

 

[Stuwhu]

And I should mention our standing advice on monthly season tickets: don't buy them! You're allowed to buy a season ticket for any period you like between a month and a year, so it's a good idea to plan your purchase so that you miss out paying for some weekends or leave periods. You can also buy more in advance now if you want to get it at the old prices.

For example, if you needed a ticket to start on Monday the 23rd of January, buying a 1-month ticket would get it up to Wednesday the 22nd of February and cost £268.80 (23 working days, £11.69 per day). If instead you got the ticket valid up to Friday the 24th, it would cost £287.00 (25 working days, £11.48 per day). Not a huge saving, but better in your pocket, right?

Hi Island
Thanks for your answer, it was the answer I wanted.. as regards getting a monthly season ticket, work are paying for it, and I go to see family in Crewe in the evenings and at weekends sometimes so if its included in the ticket work would pay for it instead of me

 

[John @ home]

Hi Island
Thanks for your answer, it was the answer I wanted

Hi Stuwhu,
Welcome to the forum!

I know that island's answer was the one you wanted, but I have doubts about its accuracy. It's a complex issue and I hope to post my calculations here later. Sorry I have to ask you to wait.

Cheers,
John

 

[island]

Good point by John@home, which I missed out due to not being familiar with north-western geography! I'm not sure what the implications are.

 

[John @ home]

My calculation is:

I agree with island that:

• Liverpool Lime Street is a member of Liverpool Group Routeing Point (RP)
• RPs for Poynton are Crewe, Stockport, Stoke on Trent and Wilmslow Group
• The fares check shows that Crewe, Stockport and Wilmslow Group are appropriate RPs and Stoke on Trent is not an appropriate RP for this journey.
• Travel via Manchester is permitted using, for example, Stockport as an appropriate RP and maps LY or TP.

Travel via both Kidsgrove and Crewe is permitted if (and only if) the Rule

If one station is a routeing point and the other one is a related station, the permitted route is the shortest route to the routeing point plus the permitted routes between routeing points.

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/RSPDocuments/instructions.pdf

is to be interpreted that the shortest route to the routeing point means the shortest route to the routeing point without passing through any other routeing point. This was not the first interpretation which occurred to me, but on reflection it seems to be the most sensible one because the alternative interpretation, the shortest route to the routeing point even if it means passing through another routeing point, would introduce more anomalies elsewhere.

This is the interpretation used by the booking engines, e.g. East Coast shows hourly journeys today at xx08 Poynton - Liverpool via Kidsgrove and Crewe. If I were making this journey via Kidsgrove, I would print out an itinerary from one of the booking engines and carry it with me.

 

[island]

[OT]Then all that remains for me to point out is that a monthly season ticket from your employer for the purpose of getting to work is a taxable benefit, so make sure you declare it on your tax return [/OT]

 

[Stuwhu]

Thanks again for your help John and Island.. of course I will endeavour to declare my additional benefit