mister-sparky
Member
These days there just aren't the paths available to route these specials, more so with the ones from the london terminals mentioned previously.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Seaside specials
- Thread starter YorkshireBear
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Perhaps, too, in some cases "Holiday Specials" are no longer needed.
For example, in my childhood there used to be summer Saturday excursions plodding from Leeds/Bradford up Copy Pit to Blackpool, hauled by anything Low Moor depot could find that was capable of moving.
Now there is a regular hourly service all-year round.
For example, in my childhood there used to be summer Saturday excursions plodding from Leeds/Bradford up Copy Pit to Blackpool, hauled by anything Low Moor depot could find that was capable of moving.
Now there is a regular hourly service all-year round.
Eagle
Established Member
I think you have found the hammer/nailhead interface there. It seems that nowadays (in addition to the greater prevalence of driving) specials aren't needed because the regular service is adequate itself, and modern passengers also find it easier to plan their own journeys and connections rather than a railway company putting on a random train where and when they think you want to go.
High Dyke
Established Member
Unsurprisingly enough most of the Nott'm - Skegvegas workings have been 2-car (156), though a 156/153 combination did get through earlier...
Poolie
Member
- Joined
- 30 Jan 2010
- Messages
- 198
Seaside Specials/Mystery Tours !!! 1969 Mystery Tour from Wembley Central (EE Type 40 or class 40) and ended up in Weston Super Mare and on the way back through Bath, the station was full of 'Hippies' who had been at the festival that is now legendary in music circles. A great a day and example of how diverse the railway could be
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Going back to the 1950's period, some of the special excursion trains from the Manchester area were composed of a variety of coaching stock of both LMS and LNER types, which were what could only be "kindly" described as being "of a certain vintage".
telstarbox
Established Member
True for holidays, but when the weather's good the world and his wife still head off for a day trip to the seaside. Witness the A21 to Hastings or the A55 along the North Wales coast on a sunny bank holiday!
pitdiver
Established Member
Talking of Mystery Tours I use to regularly go on these. One that springs to mind was St Pancras to ........... Newport in S Wales via Birmingham. Oh for the days of Merrymaker trips.
306024
Established Member
Mystery trips - can you imagine trying to keep the destination secret today?
The only mystery on the trips I went on was whether we would be going to Carlisle again. Favourite route from Euston was Northampton - Market Harborough just to throw you off the scent.
Meanwhile I'll venture Liverpool St to Walton-on-Naze seaside specials that ran on Mondays to Fridays during the summer under First Great Eastern, using a train that would spend off peak in the sidings and crews that would otherwise travel passenger, so the only cost was the unit mileage. Great way for East Londoners to see the sea, and several school parties used to take advantage of it. For some kids it was the highlight of the year. Funny to see the faces of the locals in Frinton whenever their town was invaded.
The only mystery on the trips I went on was whether we would be going to Carlisle again. Favourite route from Euston was Northampton - Market Harborough just to throw you off the scent.
Meanwhile I'll venture Liverpool St to Walton-on-Naze seaside specials that ran on Mondays to Fridays during the summer under First Great Eastern, using a train that would spend off peak in the sidings and crews that would otherwise travel passenger, so the only cost was the unit mileage. Great way for East Londoners to see the sea, and several school parties used to take advantage of it. For some kids it was the highlight of the year. Funny to see the faces of the locals in Frinton whenever their town was invaded.
Last edited:
I had no idea that Walton-on-the-Naze used to have summer specials; it's a pity it no longer does. A friend and I eschewed the popular (and directly served from London) Clacton to go to Walton instead and had a very enjoyable afternoon there a few years ago. But the day didn't get off to a great start when we missed our hourly connection at Thorpe-le-Soken by a few minutes because the train from London was late! And NXEA (as they were then) never sent me my delay repay refund
Well despite what most of you are saying it appears that seaside specials are still around.
Direct Rail Services have just announced that they have noted that a large number of holidaymakers stay in Great Yarmouth for long weekends making the Monday and Friday trains very busy.
As a result from May 25th until September 28th on Mondays and Fridays only they will be putting on extra trains, class 47 hauled, between Norwich and Great Yarmouth.
Direct Rail Services have just announced that they have noted that a large number of holidaymakers stay in Great Yarmouth for long weekends making the Monday and Friday trains very busy.
As a result from May 25th until September 28th on Mondays and Fridays only they will be putting on extra trains, class 47 hauled, between Norwich and Great Yarmouth.
As people further up have said, everything is a cost on the modern railway. As such we don't tend to have rakes of rolling stock sitting around unused most of the time, as was the case with loco-hauled stock on BR. The result is that all the trains get worked harder, and they need downtime at weekends/offpeak for maintenance. Of course it's perfectly possible to push more trains into service on demand, but come Monday morning there's going to be a lot of unhappy commuters who find their trains are being cancelled because of breakdowns.
In an ideal world, there would be enough redundancy in the fleet to allow for short-term planning flexibility, but if the aim is to make profit then the companies in charge will only do the bare minimum. Whilst being prepared would be good customer service, the interests of the shareholders (and more importantly, the Treasury!) come before the passengers; to me it is perverse but that's how it works.
The Seaside Specials to Newquay are a historical service, which existed before privatisation. If a service already exists, it is politically difficult to get rid of it. I wouldn't expect a TOC to come up with such an initiative nowadays, unless they sat down and worked out that it will return extra profit. I believe that BR had some timetabled seaside extras, but occasionally there were one-off relief trains. I wasn't around at the time, so sadly I missed out on the experience!
In some cases, such as planned sport events where there are truly exceptional crowd levels, it does make good business sense to run more trains, since they will be pretty much guaranteed to be full and standing. Thus, the TOC makes more money by running more trains in this case. This requires however coordination between the events venues and the railways to make sure enough staff are on duty to run these extra trains on the required dates.
I would suggest that the only reason the summer only Newquay direct HST from Paddington exists is exactly profit. The service is frequently standing room only from Pad if not Reading.
There would be little point providing such a service if nobody used it. Quite right too.
hoffers
Member
My daughter and family took a train from York to Scarborough on Bank Holiday Monday and it was the usual three car DMU, packed to the rafters, hot, stuffy and uncomfortable.
Is it really such a chore to add a couple of extra coaches on trains? If they fill up great, if not people can spread out. If they're short of coaches, buy some more.
Is it really such a chore to add a couple of extra coaches on trains? If they fill up great, if not people can spread out. If they're short of coaches, buy some more.
sheff'd victoria
Member
Not as easy to do as you think, our friends in Gainsborough have been asking for years for Northern to run to Cleethorpes on Bank Holiday Monday's
East Midland Trains have also been asked to run a summer Saturday Sheffield Midland - Nottingham - Skegness service using the HST that they use on this line from Nottingham, this also has fallen on deaf ears.
NSEFAN
Established Member
Sadly, the procurement of new trains and cascading of old ones is a very slow process. It's not like Asda stock Pacers...hoffers said:
And as said before, TOCs aren't going to pay for fresh air to be carted around just incase more people turn up. Such is modern railway economics.
From the timetable changes from 19 May there will be additional services from York to Scarborough. These include the daily EMT service from London St Pancras on Saturdays, and from 22 June extra York-Scarborough shuttles from TPE.
(I seem to recall that the services which run all year cannot be strengthened due to platform lengths at Malton and Seamer.)
underbank
Established Member
I'd forgotten about the mystery trips. We went on quite a few from Morecambe, to Skegness, Bath/Weston-Super-Mare, Gourock, York/Scarborough, etc. There was usually two options for destination - one a city and the other seaside so you could choose where you wanted to go.
Usually routed quite strangely on lightly used lines (sometimes freight only) rather than all the way on the main/direct lines. As an avid trainspotter at the time, it was the best way to see different depots etc to tick off more in my book. (I'd fairly quickly ticked off everything using the WCML, i.e. class 50s, then later on the 86/87s etc).
Other than that, there were also lots of other specials, not just to the seaside. Plenty of special excursions to major destinations that weren't covered by "normal" services.
I remember that they were usually booked up very quickly - we seemed to have to get to the ticket office as soon as they were announced to get a ticket.
As others have said, in those days there were plenty of spare rakes of mark 1s hanging around - also plenty of class 40s which seemed to be the usual traction. Under BR, the only "extra" costs would have been drivers, guards, buffet staff and cleaners, plus the fuel. I seem to recall class 31s were sometimes used, but that may be my memory playing tricks.
They were also good for trainspotting. I remember spending hours sat at Bare Lane watching the same DMU come and go all day, so it was quite exciting to get down there first thing to watch the special (sometimes 2) go through, and then cycle down again in the evening to watch them come back. Certainly helped me tick all the class 40's in my book.
Usually routed quite strangely on lightly used lines (sometimes freight only) rather than all the way on the main/direct lines. As an avid trainspotter at the time, it was the best way to see different depots etc to tick off more in my book. (I'd fairly quickly ticked off everything using the WCML, i.e. class 50s, then later on the 86/87s etc).
Other than that, there were also lots of other specials, not just to the seaside. Plenty of special excursions to major destinations that weren't covered by "normal" services.
I remember that they were usually booked up very quickly - we seemed to have to get to the ticket office as soon as they were announced to get a ticket.
As others have said, in those days there were plenty of spare rakes of mark 1s hanging around - also plenty of class 40s which seemed to be the usual traction. Under BR, the only "extra" costs would have been drivers, guards, buffet staff and cleaners, plus the fuel. I seem to recall class 31s were sometimes used, but that may be my memory playing tricks.
They were also good for trainspotting. I remember spending hours sat at Bare Lane watching the same DMU come and go all day, so it was quite exciting to get down there first thing to watch the special (sometimes 2) go through, and then cycle down again in the evening to watch them come back. Certainly helped me tick all the class 40's in my book.
Smethwickian
Member
Sadly not, even though Pacers are truly the Tesco Value range of the train stock world....
AnonymousUser1
Member
- Joined
- 10 Mar 2013
- Messages
- 1,010
or like the various charter / open access providers it;s 'power by the hour' and even coaching stock by the hour ... which is something that doesn't figure for the TOCs and the 'ordinary services ' OA operators
davetheguard
Established Member
- Joined
- 10 Apr 2013
- Messages
- 1,938
Mystery trips - can you imagine trying to keep the destination secret today?
The only mystery on the trips I went on was whether we would be going to Carlisle again. Favourite route from Euston was Northampton - Market Harborough just to throw you off the scent.
Meanwhile I'll venture Liverpool St to Walton-on-Naze seaside specials that ran on Mondays to Fridays during the summer under First Great Eastern, using a train that would spend off peak in the sidings and crews that would otherwise travel passenger, so the only cost was the unit mileage. Great way for East Londoners to see the sea, and several school parties used to take advantage of it. For some kids it was the highlight of the year. Funny to see the faces of the locals in Frinton whenever their town was invaded.
Ahhh, Mystex. I remember a lot of people's day out being slightly spoilt when one day at what was then just plain "Didcot" the following announcement was made by the station supervisor: "The next train to arrive at platform one is the Mystery Excursion to Weston Super Mare"
Talk about opening mouth before engaging brain.
It's a paltry couple of extra services on Saturdays only + the EMT train.
On Sundays there's a staggering FOUR HOUR gap between services out of Scarborough, between 11.52-15.52.
It's the same story every summer that the trains get packed. I'm not sure about Malton and Seamer, but a) the relief trains don't have to stop there and b) I'm pretty sure both station platforms would take at least 6 carriages.
Whenever this subject comes up it's always "well this is the way with modern railways" etc - if that's the case, all I can say is it's not the sort of modern railway that I, or I suspect the people who are packed on the trains in the holiday season, would like to have.
NSEFAN
Established Member
Scarby said:
None of us on here are happy with some of the "quirks" that the railways have developed, but what are we realistically supposed to do? The railway has become this weird mess of public and private operation. It sort of works but it's far, far from ideal, and I don't think there's the political will to properly sort it out.
The best part about this is that Mr and Mrs Bloggs and the kids taking the rammed 2-car Sprinter to Skegness don't care who runs the trains, they just want them better. Sadly, it seems that Mr DfT doesn't do trips to the seaside, or travel much by train outside of London at all for that matter.
HSTEd
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2011
- Messages
- 20,276
The people voted for governments that pursued this course, and apparently believed that eliminating the "dead hand" of the state would be a good thing.
They can't have their cake and eat it too.
Well of course this is true to a large extent. But obviously as you yourself said, they thought it would be a good thing - (almost) no-one wanted the railways to get worse.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I am a little disquieted that this thread has taken a turn in political reasoning over the last few posts. I am sure there are those of us who would like to return back to the spirit of the original thread title.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The carriage sidings at Red Bank, just north of Manchester Victoria station, were always guaranteed to have some "elderly" coaching stock in the late 1950's period, that were sometimes pressed into service on "specials".
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The carriage sidings at Red Bank, just north of Manchester Victoria station, were always guaranteed to have some "elderly" coaching stock in the late 1950's period, that were sometimes pressed into service on "specials".
Last edited:
Sure. We began with:
Surely it is absolute basic common sense that any destination that has a significant seasonal peak - in this case holidaymakers to seaside towns - needs a substantially strengthened timetable/larger trains in the holiday periods.
But while this used to take place as a matter of course, apparently this is simply beyond the capability of a modern railway, which now runs exactly the same service on a blazing hot bank holiday, or whole of August, as on a wet Wednesday in February.
Can you imagine if private enterprises in say, Scarborough, ran their businesses on the same lines? "Oh, my hotel is half empty from October to May; how uneconomic - I think I'll halve its size."
"But what are you going to do when all the holidaymakers come?"
"Oh, they can all share rooms with each other, or maybe some can sleep on the landing or in the broom cupboard. If they vow never ever to repeat this experience, or we have to turn them away, well, never mind, eh?"
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Northern resorts once had a multiplicity of small boarding houses (I have Blackpool in mind as a typical example) where the traditional "Wakes Weeks" milltown settlements disgorged their workforce and rail was a traditional mode of travel, as can be borne out by the number of "excursion platforms" and carriage storage facilities that were to be found in the seaside railway stations. I would recommend a viewing of the film "Hindle Wakes" as a good pictorial example of this.
The problem these days is the number of these former boarding houses that now see life as flats for different usage including what can only be kindly described as "private social housing". These run-down properties do absolutely nothing to aid local councils who try to ensure that the image of their resorts as being attractive to holidaymakers. Blackpool in particular seems to have a very large number of what is best described as "transient" visitors and the term "DHSS-by-the-Sea" is one that has been heard in recent times.
HSTEd
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2011
- Messages
- 20,276
Traditional week long holidays in the UK are a dying industry it would appear.
Our primary concern should probably be reducing travel times to major resorts such that we can capture some sort of day tripper market. (That way people can wait until they know what the weather will be like before going, overcoming Britain's weather issues).
Our primary concern should probably be reducing travel times to major resorts such that we can capture some sort of day tripper market. (That way people can wait until they know what the weather will be like before going, overcoming Britain's weather issues).
- Status