Sealed Windows & A/C Not Coping

[CarltonA]

Last Saturday I travelled from KX to Norwich via Ely. The FCC train to Ely had opening windows and although this was noisy the temperature remained bearable on what was to be a very warm day. However, I boarded an EMT class 158 at Ely and the A/C was not working. This was fairly unleasant, especially on the sunny side of the train. Coming back I decided to use the GA Norwich to Cambridge service which was a class 170, even worse! I have never been so hot on a train ever. Thankfully the FCC direct service was waiting and I had a noisy but bearable journey to KX. I think the upper windows on a 158 can be removed using a special key in an emergency but the 170 is all one window. Moan, moan and moan, but anyway they should not make trains like this. I know if the windows are opened when the a/c is on it mucks up the cooling but there needs to be a better arrangement for when it packs up or just cannot cope on an extremely hot day. Rant over.

 

[150001]

Had the same problem on a LM 172 last week; the AC had packed up in the one car and it was sweltering in there! The other two cars still had air con. Really I think units like 158s and 170/172s need opening hopper windows like the class 378s just in case it is too hot!

 

[317666]

The aircon on Turbostars never seems to work very well from my experience! The problem with having lots of opening hopper windows though is that, unless they are locked, people will open them anyway, even if there are signs telling them not to, like on the Class 166s.

 

[Failed Unit]

158s do have hopper vents they are always open in Scotland as the air conn is rubbish!

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought recent Electrostar variants including the recent 378s and 379s also had emergency hoppers openable by traincrew with a key?

 

[starrymarkb]

Last Saturday I travelled from KX to Norwich via Ely. The FCC train to Ely had opening windows and although this was noisy the temperature remained bearable on what was to be a very warm day. However, I boarded an EMT class 158 at Ely and the A/C was not working. This was fairly unleasant, especially on the sunny side of the train. Coming back I decided to use the GA Norwich to Cambridge service which was a class 170, even worse! I have never been so hot on a train ever. Thankfully the FCC direct service was waiting and I had a noisy but bearable journey to KX. I think the upper windows on a 158 can be removed using a special key in an emergency but the 170 is all one window. Moan, moan and moan, but anyway they should not make trains like this. I know if the windows are opened when the a/c is on it mucks up the cooling but there needs to be a better arrangement for when it packs up or just cannot cope on an extremely hot day. Rant over.

Earlier this year I had to get an ICE-T with broken aircon. DB had provided free water bottles and then as we had a reservation our group was upgraded to first!

 

[EltonRoad]

Had this today on a Northern 158 from Settle to Carlisle - the guard came round with a key and opened the hopper windows, to good effect!

 

[CarltonA]

I prefer the arrangement on the 166s and some third rail stock where a window may be opened by pax but there is warning this will impede the a/c. At least you will not suffer so much when it goes wrong. Someone in poor health could easily be taken ill.

 

[David10]

I prefer the arrangement on the 166s and some third rail stock where a window may be opened by pax but there is warning this will impede the a/c.

Never works, there will always be one idiot who can't understand this and insists on opening a window. But now that we don't have many summer days anymore, is rarely an issue.

 

[Rick1984]

There are only a couple of opening windows on 158 so wouldn't make much difference I'd have thought. Good idea to have about 4 locking windows each side.

 

[BestWestern]

The air-con on Class 158's is notoriously poor, partly because it was designed to work with CFC gasses, which were legal at the time but have since been banned. The system can still function with modern coolant, but not as well it should do. It also doesn't help that most TOC's don't maintain them as well as they could, which inevitably gives poor results. As for the hopper windows, they require a T-key to open. The original design of the coaches includes four hoppers, however SWT retrofitted an extra four to some of their units, which presumably helps. It's the build up of heat in the coach though which really causes the issues, and sadly hoppers just aren't enough to shift it usually :-/

 

[150001]

The 172s have excellent air con; it is too cold though at times!

 

[tom1649]

The 172s have excellent air con; it is too cold though at times!

That's probably because it's new. The 170s were the same when they were new (at least the Central Trains variants were).

 

[IanXC]

There are only a couple of opening windows on 158 so wouldn't make much difference I'd have thought. Good idea to have about 4 locking windows each side.

In my experience so long as you're going fast enough the hopper windows on 158s are perfectly adequate when the AC fails. That can be a problem on some Northern routes where speed limits are low, but where limits allow I'm sure I've experienced drivers going faster than usual to improve airflow!

 

[CC 72100]

They may have opening windows, but even on cooler days, every time I've got an a 153 over the past year or so the heat has hit me! (I know they've got no air con, but obviously those windows aren't very effective/ current passengers enjoy the heat!)

 

[BestWestern]

In my experience so long as you're going fast enough the hopper windows on 158s are perfectly adequate when the AC fails. That can be a problem on some Northern routes where speed limits are low, but where limits allow I'm sure I've experienced drivers going faster than usual to improve airflow!

Certainly on our fleet, it really does depend on how much heat has built up inside the coach. If it's a genuinely roasting hot day, then the hoppers sadly tend to do very little :cry:

 

[TGV]

The air-con on Class 158's is notoriously poor, partly because it was designed to work with CFC gasses, which were legal at the time but have since been banned. The system can still function with modern coolant, but not as well it should do.

This sort of thing is relatively simple to overcome. Our older sets fell foul of the same legislation, but changing compressors, expansion valves, some re-routing of pipes and a software change and they can be fully compliant using R134a or R407c refrigerant instead of the old R22 CFC stuff.

TOCs/ROSCOs should be doing this sort of thing if it hasn't already been done.