Sea France sinks

[jopsuk]

no sailings since November, company has now ceased.

 

[deltic1989]

Well it's a shame that so many people have lost their jobs. but we're not exactly short of options on that particular route and P&O have nicer boats (Even though they are the 'Free Enterprise class'), and on other routes Brittany Ferries have some loveley boats. I've only ever used Sea France as a last resort for a booze cruise. still sad to see them go though.

 

[trentside]

I've never travelled with SeaFrance, nor do I know much about the economics of ferry operation but the level cross-Channel competition was probably unsustainable given the economic climate, especially when you factor in the Channel Tunnel as well.

It's bad news for the people who've lost their jobs, and I hope they are able to find new employment soon - I know it's not easy right now.

 

[Schnellzug]

The last vestige of the railway steamers is gone, then. Mind you, I expect SNCF will be very pleased that that's another milestone they've taken off their necks. Of course, like Sealink, they've really been competing with themselves for decades, since people who take their car on the ferry aren't then going to use the trains, are they?

It's a pretty modern fleet;
SeaFrance Rodin (built 2001).
SeaFrance Berlioz (built 2005).
SeaFrance Molière (built 2002),

Eurotunnel might be interested, they say?

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Eurotunnel might be interested, they say?

Would they be running them as a shipping line, or keeping them as spares in case of Chunnel problems? Don't know much about shipping, would it be viable to maintain a ferry for use maybe only once or twice a year?

 

[Schnellzug]

Would they be running them as a shipping line, or keeping them as spares in case of Chunnel problems? Don't know much about shipping, would it be viable to maintain a ferry for use maybe only once or twice a year?

There are restrictions on what goods can go through the Tunnel, either for safety reasons of because they're out of gauge; perhaps they might be interested in being able to keep this business rather than letting competitors have it? Although I don't know whether the Competition people would be happy with that.

 

[TomJ93]

Rodin was a lovely boat, sad to see them go

 

[jopsuk]

for out-of-gauge and "dangerous" traffic, surely what they'd be interested in is the MS SeaFrance Nord Pas De Calais?
Perhaps P&O would be interested in the Rodin and Berlioz to replace the Pride of Calais and Pride of Burgundy?

 

[WestCoast]

Competition has certainly reduced from Dover. In 2005 there was P&O, SeaFrance and Hoverspeed on Dover to Calais, with SpeedFerries to Boulogne.

There's still indirect competition from DFDS Seaways on Dover to Dunkirk (with 12 daily sailings), although they don't except foot passengers. However, you can go with a bicycle!

I guess the tunnel has had a major impact, as well as rising fuel prices. Plus, there are other routes available.

 

[Schnellzug]

I think the Tunnel (and EasyAir, Ryanjet etc) has had the biggest impact on passenger (or Pax) traffic; the main business of the Ferry companies for a while has been freight traffic. Will any reduction in competition have an effect there? we shall have to see.

 

[ivanhoe]

I went P&O in October for a short break. I dislike going on Eurotunnel and the 80 minute ferry journey is a good break after a long drive. There is really only enough Calais Business for one operator whilst DFDS do the Dunkirk route. Sorry for the job losses though. Hope they sorted out .

 

[WestCoast]

Living up north, I have rarely used the cross-channel ferries. I have used P&O's Hull to Rotterdam overnight sailing on their very modern and well-equipped cruiseferries, the Pride of Hull and the Pride of Rotterdam.

DFDS on Newcastle - Amsterdam is another good one too.

 

[jopsuk]

The Dover Straits big boxes are a world away from the longer distance cruise-ferrries.

Is no-one serving Boulogne at all? Though they'd had a new terminal (or were going to have a new terminal), originally for SpeedFerries but then for LD Lines? The one year I used SpeedFerries route, it was rather handy- I was headed/coming back from the south west via a route avoiding Paris, so a crossing that was both quicker than the Calais ferries and avoided some driving was handy. Until the return journey was delayed by engine trouble, mindyou

 

[142094]

Been on both ferries to Calais, on le Shuttle and flown to Paris before. Don't think I'd travel on le Shuttle again, not exactly great after a long drive down the A1 in a minibus/car/coach. Ferry is much better - least you can have a good walk around, food, toilet etc.

 

[ivanhoe]

Boulogne is ferry free. There's no way you can make that route profitable. As well as Eurotunnel, rail passengers travel direct now to France. Keeping Dover Calais going is the best way to keep ferries alive. Dunkirk is an interesting route. Be interesting to see whether this has a future giving that DFDS may wish to have some of the Calais action.

 

[Oracle]

For us it's a 2 1/2 drive to Folkestone for the Chunnel or a bit longer for Dover. We would love to go Portsmouth-Cherbourg, or at a pinch Poole-Cherbourg but thne prices are horrendous with a car and you can't seemingly do a day trip. In the past we have day-tripped via the Chunnel to The Netherlands and the Eiffel Tower!

 

[jopsuk]

The one route I wish there was a better service on is Portsmouth-St Malo- mainly so that there could be night ferries both ways. 12 hours is superb as a night crossing- long enough for dinner, drinks, a proper sleep and breakfast. But 9-10 hours daytime on the way back? Torture, even on flat seas!

 

[daikilo]

The last vestige of the railway steamers is gone, then. Mind you, I expect SNCF will be very pleased that that's another milestone they've taken off their necks. Of course, like Sealink, they've really been competing with themselves for decades, since people who take their car on the ferry aren't then going to use the trains, are they?

It's a pretty modern fleet;
SeaFrance Rodin (built 2001).
SeaFrance Berlioz (built 2005).
SeaFrance Molière (built 2002),

Eurotunnel might be interested, they say?

IIRC these are the superferries that were supposed to be able to compete with the tunnel. They did, until fuel rose to current prices. My guess is that Rodin and Moliere probably achieved an adequate payback.

The problem now is that they are no longer economical in these markets unless there are consolidations, which basically means higher prices. Brussels will have difficulty approving anything with such a clear consequence, suggesting they will be sold off for use elsewhere.

In this context, I cannot see how a Eurotunnel bid could be structured to gain Brussels approval, due their obvious competitive strength. However, I could see an alternative operator stepping in and buying/leasing the ships for use on this and other routes as a function of viability/demand.

 

[Blindtraveler]

well I wöder if P and O wil get hold of the ships0to continue upgrading the fleat there? We already have the 2 new ones, am not amazingly up to speed with the fleat on that run but I know theres a cupple more older ones. as to the chunnel wel iv never done it,0but may be doing this year

 

[kylemore]

The fact that they have'nt really been missed in the two months since they stopped says it all.
As for competition it's still there with P&O and Eurotunnel now the main players with DFDS in the mix as well.
Some might say there's an opening for Stena, they seem to have P&O on the run on the Irish Sea.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

P&O have nicer boats (Even though they are the 'Free Enterprise class').

Not so; the present P&O vessels are a larger type with roughly the same external shape, but a number of internal differences.

Of the three Herald class vessels...

Herald of Free Enterprise itself was eventually handed over, on 22nd March 1988, to be scrapped at Kaiohsiung Alang has also been quoted but documentary evidence states otherwise ), having been towed there under the name "Flushing Range"; ironically it broke it's tow off South Africa and was nearly wrecked for a second time.

Spirit of Free Enterprise became "Anthi Marina" with GA Ferries in Greece.

Pride of Free Enterprise became "Oleander" with Transeuropa Ferries.

Both are still in service.

 

[Birdbrain]

I've never done Dover/Calais on the ferry but you can understand why they would fold. I've done DFDS Harwich-Esjberg which was a great trip, smooth crossing and just long enough to have a meal, sleep and a good breakfast without being rushed. That 6 berth inside cabin was very small though!

 

[RPM]

The last vestige of the railway steamers is gone, then. Mind you, I expect SNCF will be very pleased that that's another milestone they've taken off their necks. Of course, like Sealink, they've really been competing with themselves for decades, since people who take their car on the ferry aren't then going to use the trains, are they?

It's a pretty modern fleet;
SeaFrance Rodin (built 2001).
SeaFrance Berlioz (built 2005).
SeaFrance Molière (built 2002),

Not forgetting the SeaFrance Nord Pas-De-Calais of 1987, the last train ferry to serve the British Isles.

 

[WatcherZero]

Done the ferry trip several times, its fast but nor hugely pleasent in rough seas, the suspicion is eurotunnel want the fleet in order to scuttle them and stop another operator buying them on the cheap but it would complement their service though unlikely to make them much money, possibly even a loss leader.

 

[kylemore]

Done the ferry trip several times, its fast but nor hugely pleasent in rough seas, the suspicion is eurotunnel want the fleet in order to scuttle them and stop another operator buying them on the cheap but it would complement their service though unlikely to make them much money, possibly even a loss leader.

If Eurotunnel is allowed to take over Seafrance then P&O should demand open access to the Tunnel. If its ok for Eurotunnel to run ferries then it should also be ok for P&O to run shuttle trains!

 

[WatcherZero]

Its already a requirement that they have to allow any operator that wants to the ability to use it. Thats whats leading to the future SNCF and DB services through it.

 

[142094]

Breakfast on P+O from Hull to Zeebrugge was a highlight - no wonder a lot of the truckers are carrying a few extra lbs.

 

[Schnellzug]

I like the idea of P&O Railfreight.

interesting thought, if SeaFrance was to be acquired by ET, that would mean that it would move from being owned by a state-owned railway company to a private sector one (i think ET is private sector, isn't it, these multinational enterprises can get a bit complicated). Do DB still run any ferry services to the North Sea islands?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The one route I wish there was a better service on is Portsmouth-St Malo- mainly so that there could be night ferries both ways. 12 hours is superb as a night crossing- long enough for dinner, drinks, a proper sleep and breakfast. But 9-10 hours daytime on the way back? Torture, even on flat seas!

Nothing better than sitting on deck with a glass of whatever and gazing out to sea at the passing shipping. And St Malo is a splendid port to approach by daytime.

 

[kylemore]

I like the idea of P&O Railfreight.

interesting thought, if SeaFrance was to be acquired by ET, that would mean that it would move from being owned by a state-owned railway company to a private sector one (i think ET is private sector, isn't it, these multinational enterprises can get a bit complicated). Do DB still run any ferry services to the North Sea islands?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Nothing better than sitting on deck with a glass of whatever and gazing out to sea at the passing shipping. And St Malo is a splendid port to approach by daytime.

I think DB's shipping interests were privatised long ago, In fact I think the last to go were the Bodensee (Lake Constance) steamers (I may be wrong about that, maybe one of our German members can set us right).
However being Germany there are still excellent rail connections with many of the Frisian islands ferry services.

 

[jopsuk]

Its already a requirement that they have to allow any operator that wants to the ability to use it. Thats whats leading to the future SNCF and DB services through it.

The tunnel's open access- but I bet there's no requirement that the Shuttle terminals are, and I doubt that you could take a shuttle-sized carriage very far past the terminal without it be hilariously out of guage.