SE reducing services to allow daytime inspections

[87015]

Its not like that at all now. Access planning is done directly with operators and people that want access, of any type, have to get it agreed. They don't have carte blanche at all.

Hopefully in your part of NR, plenty just decision and/or publish unconsulted and wonder why they get pushback…

 

[Bald Rick]

It's hard to see what a track inspector can achieve in an hours gap that they can't in a half-hourly one.

About three times as much work.

 

[swt_passenger]

It's hard to see what a track inspector can achieve in an hours gap that they can't in a half-hourly one.

See post #3 please.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It's hard to see what a track inspector can achieve in an hours gap that they can't in a half-hourly one.

The problem is taking a line blockages takes time to take then time to give up along with timing for when the train has gone past the end protecting signal and then making sure its given up before the next train is due. So I's say that potentially less than 15m continuous working per half hour against 40m if its an hour.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The problem is taking a line blockages takes time to take then time to give up along with timing for when the train has gone past the end protecting signal and then making sure its given up before the next train is due. So I's say that potentially less than 15m continuous working per half hour against 40m if its an hour.

Absolutely.

The very simple way I explain this to non rail colleagues is, if I get a three hour possession on an electrified line at night, it takes an hour to set up and get isolated, and an hour to do the same in reverse. So that is a one hour working window. But those set up and shut down times do not normally increase when you then increase the possession time. So every extra minute you get is an extra minute of work. And then the efficiencies really start to build up.

Understand the comments regarding customer service from others, but I think this is actually moving towards better customer service. Predictable minor disruption on a cyclical basis, rather than full closures more often with buses etc. Also more cost effective which can only be a good thing.

 

[87015]

Understand the comments regarding customer service from others, but I think this is actually moving towards better customer service. Predictable minor disruption on a cyclical basis, rather than full closures more often with buses etc. Also more cost effective which can only be a good thing.

Is this actually going to happen though? These are patrolling blocks, not for maintenance or disruptive works and they certainly aren’t looking to give up possessions in this patrolling possession grab in other areas of the network.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Is this actually going to happen though? These are patrolling blocks, not for maintenance or disruptive works and they certainly aren’t looking to give up possessions in this patrolling possession grab in other areas of the network.

Not close enough to the details or the region, but that is certainly what I would expect... I know lots of areas where services finish early/start late especially on weekends to allow patrolling. Which as weekends are now busier would lend to this approach.

 

[alxndr]

Is this actually going to happen though? These are patrolling blocks, not for maintenance or disruptive works and they certainly aren’t looking to give up possessions in this patrolling possession grab in other areas of the network.

Just because it’s advertised as being for inspections doesn’t mean people can’t share the same line blockage and do some FPL testing or vegetation clearance at the same time.

 

[OxtedL]

We have this on the East Grinstead line every weekday from 10ish to 2ish. The trains were never restored to half hourly post-pandemic. Often see line blocks taken during this time on traksy et al.

A little frustrating on the very rare occasions you'd want the opposite half hour, but the line is quiet during those hours and I vastly prefer this to e.g. more weekend closures as a track access solution.

 

[AY1975]

According to the press release linked from post #1 at the start of this thread, one of the weeks when the revised service will operate between Maidstone East and Ashford is Christmas week, 22-26 December, even though nothing runs on Christmas Day or (at least on most parts of the rail network) on Boxing Day, although in recent years Southeastern has sometimes run a limited Boxing Day service on at least one or two routes (including a London to Ashford service in at least one year as I recall).

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

This trial will be watched by other routes as they will all be in the same boat once the rule book is changed in Dec 25 and lookout working is effectively consigned to the history books. What will be interesting is to see whether any trials are also taking place to eliminate patrolling full stop and replace it with railbourne monitoring which is what I believe HS1 rely upon.

 

[Class 170101]

This trial will be watched by other routes as they will all be in the same boat once the rule book is changed in Dec 25 and lookout working is effectively consigned to the history books.

Should be, how we are still monitoring the track by the Orange Army walking on the formation in the 21st Centrury amazes me.

What will be interesting is to see whether any trials are also taking place to eliminate patrolling full stop and replace it with railbourne monitoring which is what I believe HS1 rely upon.

When you say rail borne monitoring I assume you mean like the yellow HST / 37s etc or are you also including drones?

 

[Falcon1200]

Delivery to customers deserves to be on a par with safety, compliance and budget (the maintainer’s holy trinity) not fourth place.

Understand what you say, and as an ex-railway operator sympathise to some extent, however safety should not be an equal consideration but the first, for which maintainers are held responsible and accountable.

 

[yorksrob]

If adopted more widely, I fear that this will be one of those things that makes the railway less useful to passengers/customers and more expensive to run overall.

Given the way things are at the moment, that's not a good direction to be heading in.

 

[Harpo]

Understand what you say, and as an ex-railway operator sympathise to some extent, however safety should not be an equal consideration but the first, for which maintainers are held responsible and accountable.

Absolutely. Safety above all else. My eternal frustration as an operator was that it was never about delivering to a high performance spec safely, but getting whatever level of performance got delivered by engineers and maintainers after their safety, compliance and budgetary adherence.

Coucher’s defining of Network Rail as a ‘Private engineering company’ sealed the fate of delivery to customers as a by-product.

 

[The exile]

Whatever the rights, wrongs and desirabilities of the plan, it seems to me that doing this “one week in 4” (presumably on different lines in different weeks) is much more disruptive to customers than doing it on a particular line on the same day (or 2 days if necessary) every week. Easier for people to know which day to avoid than to have to remember which week is going to be awkward (especially as weeks don’t nicely fit into months). Presumably, however, it’s being done like that for a reason.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Whatever the rights, wrongs and desirabilities of the plan, it seems to me that doing this “one week in 4” (presumably on different lines in different weeks) is much more disruptive to customers than doing it on a particular line on the same day (or 2 days if necessary) every week. Easier for people to know which day to avoid than to have to remember which week is going to be awkward (especially as weeks don’t nicely fit into months). Presumably, however, it’s being done like that for a reason.

It will also be interesting to see what use they actually make of it every week although we will never be told specifically of course. Also agree with you the way they are planned for the whole week but the length of lines involved are quite different ie Sittingbourne-Sheerness is 7.5m but Tonbridge to Ashford is 29m. Now I know the latter route is split between two Track Maintenance Engineers so two teams of patrollers will probably be deployed but feel disproportionate disruption is being levied on the shorter routes.

 

[wimbledonpete]

As a Folkestone resident this news was dismaying, but it turns out that all they're doing is moving the hourly main line service round by 30 mins and attaching it to the existing Canterbury line train at Ashford, so a through hourly service is preserved, just at the opposite half hour. Which actually goes back to the previous TT pattern where you could connect at Ashford for a High Speed, effectively giving a half hourly arrival at St Pancras. Presumably the trains will be maximum 12 cars in total during this period.

 

[Class 170101]

As a Folkestone resident this news was dismaying, but it turns out that all they're doing is moving the hourly main line service round by 30 mins and attaching it to the existing Canterbury line train at Ashford, so a through hourly service is preserved, just at the opposite half hour. Which actually goes back to the previous TT pattern where you could connect at Ashford for a High Speed, effectively giving a half hourly arrival at St Pancras. Presumably the trains will be maximum 12 cars in total during this period.

All fine and dandy until you find that the route to the coast is reduced in service (or Blocked) this summer. In this case reducing Folkestone to a shared hourly service means a maximum of 12 carriages runing between London and Ashford with portions beyond there. This could all end in tears.

 

[Bishopstone]

I hope, when services are halved for these understandable reasons, those that remain in the timetable are prioritised as 'must run without fail'. These would not be suitable moments to find you're short of a driver/guard, or have a troublesome unit on the diagram.

 

[Class 466]

I hope, when services are halved for these understandable reasons, those that remain in the timetable are prioritised as 'must run without fail'. These would not be suitable moments to find you're short of a driver/guard, or have a troublesome unit on the diagram.

No serivce is truly 'must run without fail'

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

In this case reducing Folkestone to a shared hourly service means a maximum of 12 carriages runing between London and Ashford with portions beyond there. This could all end in tears.

I'm sure I've been on on a 12-car from St Pancras as far as Folkestone Central, where the rear unit was locked out. Now they seem to detach at Ashford. This would be something to try again over the Summer. Or change the rules...

 

[wimbledonpete]

I'm sure I've been on on a 12-car from St Pancras as far as Folkestone Central, where the rear unit was locked out. Now they seem to detach at Ashford. This would be something to try again over the Summer. Or change the rules...

Yes, the 17.37 M-F used to do that. In the morning it can be a bit of a fight for seats at Folkestone West on some of the key morning trains - most attach to another 6 at Ashford where there's another genteel hurtle as people without seats jump off and move forward, but of course the waiting 6 can also be close to full with Ashford folk.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2025 ==

All fine and dandy until you find that the route to the coast is reduced in service (or Blocked) this summer. In this case reducing Folkestone to a shared hourly service means a maximum of 12 carriages runing between London and Ashford with portions beyond there. This could all end in tears.

Possibly, of course, but there's only a week in August that might be affected by crowds going to the coast, the other two weeks are in September and January where the risk is much reduced. It's not ideal, but then a replacement bus on a weekend is also very much not ideal.

 

[Zomboid]

If it does end in tears then that'll help those in charge to work out what they need to do differently next time.

 

[43066]

I hope, when services are halved for these understandable reasons, those that remain in the timetable are prioritised as 'must run without fail'. These would not be suitable moments to find you're short of a driver/guard, or have a troublesome unit on the diagram.

Ultimately if a unit fails unexpectedly, or a rostered member of staff is taken ill and there’s no cover available, there isn’t really anything that can be done.

 

[yorksrob]

I think a half-hourly service is sensible in the circumstances of the SE main line. Going to hourly for no benefit will be a retrograde step.